panos.v wrote: 1bwana1 wrote:
OK everyone, at what price would you consider a M11-P not obscene?
I am not arguing with you, or trying to justify Leica's channel placement decisions. I sincerely have a hard time arriving at an answer for myself. The problem I have is there is no real equivalent product from another manufacturer that is truly equivalent. It is the only camera of it's type in the market today. To establish equivalency one must not only consider images created, but the entire ecosystem of the camera. I think that is what drives sales of the M system. Then we must consider market acceptance, which in this case is very high judging by Leica's financial results and sales numbers. When I consider it all in context I just can't come up with a number. Can you?
That said, I do find the current prices to be extremely high. But in today's World I feel that way about many, many things...
There's a very easy number. It is what the X2D costs.
Hasselblad can make a camera with
- a much more expensive sensor
- with a bigger screen (ie more expensive)
- with an EVF (and yes ok that's cheaper than a rangefinder but surely that R&D paid itself 50 years ago and they should be able to do it reasonably cheap)
- with a more firmware to deal with the EVF, AF and all that
- more or less the same ethos and attention to construction and detail and tactile experience as Leica
- has the same (if not more significant) heritage than Leica
They make that camera in Sweden which has similar cost of living as Germany. They sell fewer of those cameras, ie the R&D cost needs to be spread over fewer units (ie higher). That camera costs 20% less than the M11P. Leica is saying that the cost of the rangefinder is the extra cost of all the above PLUS 20%? Or is the extra cost in the QC department?
I guess Leica says that the rangefinder costs £1200 (EV1 vs M11?). I find that hard to believe. Even accounting for that, a "rangefinder X2D" is still cheaper, despite being just as well made and being medium format with AF. The X2D is £400 cheaper than the EV1 today.
Then again, this is like arguing why a Hermes Birkin bag costs what it costs vs the priciest Mulberry or Bottega Veneta bag. It just does. People buy it.
The Hasselblad is a comparative bargain but for many photographers here would not be an alternative purchase.
