gdanmitchell
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 Re: Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market? | |
OK, I see your point about Sony in particular. A quick check showed that their current low price for a FF body (on a discounted model) is $1500. I see a new FF Nikon for $1100, and as I mentioned earlier there are even less expensive FF bodies from Canon — the rather old (released 6 years ago) RP is available for $800 and the more contemporary R8 goes for a (currently discounted) price of $1400.
So…
… if you are looking for the least expensive new FF body from the Big Three, your current least expensive option is that somewhat dated Canon RP. For some users that could be a fine starter camera — though it was one of the very first mirrorless ILC bodies that Canon produced.
… if you are looking for a more contemporary camera, Nikon offers the best price currently on a new FF body at $1100. (The Z5 I think?)
… the current discounted prices for more contemporary Canon and Sony FF bodies are pretty close — $1500 for the least expensive Sony and $1400 for the Canon R8. (The un-discounted price difference will be larger, though with looming tariff confusion, who knows what these things will actually cost?)
I wonder — have. you looked into the full costs of bodies and lenses for a system from the three manufacturers? (Here Sony, I believe, as a bit of an advantage with a lot of third party options. That’s not the case with Canon R-series bodies, and I don’t know about Nikon.)
Dave Sanders wrote:
Dan, you did indeed miss the mark, missed it again, then proved my point.
You're right, Canon does have some great affordable entry level models - so does Nikon. Sony doesn't. Hence the name of this thread: Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?
gdanmitchell wrote:
No, I don't think I'm missing the mark. I started looking at these comparisons years ago. While the Sony inflation adjusted price in this case is pretty constant over time, quite a few other cameras I have looked at have actually gotten less expensive in those terms.
Look into it — there are tons of examples. You can easily find inflation calculators online that let you plug in the list price at the time an earlier model was released and find out what the equivalent cost would be today.
As to the situation with young people, I understand, though I don't think it is as different as you think. Both of my sons do photography, one as part of his job. They both started with thrift store cameras and lenses that they picked up on the cheap — and they were thrilled to have them. They've since moved on to more modern stuff.
To a young buyer who wants to consider staring out with top end equipment — camera, lenses, tripod, bags/packs and all the rest of it — that has always been a very big lift, I'm afraid.
There are less-expensive new options, too. I'm not up enough on the Sony line-up to say what they are. (I'm mainly here to learn more about Sony in anticipation of a possible future move to the brand.) I'm more familiar with Canon, and that brand does have a bunch of less-expensive, entry-level bodies, just as in the past. You can get a FF RP for $799. (Back when I got my first FF body, the Canon 5D, shortly after it came out it was the least expensive FF body available... with a list price of $3300! In 2025 funds that would be $5,431.)
Again, I don't mean to lessen difficulties and costs of getting into photography with new equipment, but the truth is that if you follow any of the paths we followed back in the day and compare inflation adjusted prices between current and earlier options... I think you'll be surprised to find that things aren't more expensive today.
Dave Sanders wrote:
Your points are all well made - but it's still missing the mark. It's great that expensive cameras are costing the same or less, adjusted for inflation, but the price of the latest 'R' is irrelevant as it is not a low end, entry level camera. Young people cannot walk in to, say, Best Buy and buy Sony cameras that are cost competitive, and certainly not a FF camera.
An A7RII (my current camera, yikes!) may have cost $3200 in 2015, which was a lot...but there were a ton of options in the DSLR world for young people or people of not a lot of means to buy and use. Your points 2-5 just reinforce this - yes, it's not about the gear, yes you should focus on photos, yes you don't need the latest...hence why access to something priced like a Z50 or Z5 is important.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Dave Sanders wrote:
I think Sony's lens development kind of reinforces the original point - there are few recent non-G and G options. One has to buy an expensive camera and expensive lenses - it's untenable for young people or people without a ton of money. I'd prefer photography not to join the ever-increasing ranks of heavily monied hobbies.
I hear you. But…
… as high as prices for new gear are right now, if you compare inflation-adjusted prices from a couple of decades ago (near the start of the DSLR boom) to the current prices they aren’t all that different… except in quite a few cases the current costs are actually lower than the original inflation-adjusted prices!
Example:
A7r (2013) at $2300 — a lowball price designed to entice people away from DSLRs
A7rII (2015) $3200
A7rIII (2017) $3200
A7rIV (2019) $3500
A7rV (2022) $3900
If we ignore that 2013 teaser price and start with the more realistic A7rii, inflation between 2015 and 2022 would have raised the price of a $3200 item to about… $3950! In other words, the release prices were actually comparable, as surprising as that sounds. (By 2025 the price comparable to that 2015 $3200 cost would be over $4300!)
Indeed, in virtually every case where I have checked (including other brands) the current inflation-adjusted prices of cameras has actually gone down over the past 20 years!
I know that doesn’t make it any easier for you to afford the latest and greatest stuff right now — but I’m afraid that buying into good photography gear has been fairly expensive for quite a while now.
Some ways to deal with this include:
1. Start out with good used gear bought at a discount.
2. Avoid falling victim to the “I need all the gear” and “I must have the very newest gear” mindset. (The market is set up to make you feel that you need the newest and “best” of everything. You don’t.)
3. Try to focus on the photographs, not on the gear. This isn’t always easy — again, the gear business does a fine job of persuading people that photography is all about gear.
4. When you do buy new gear, go slow and think it through carefully, and buy stuff that you really will keep for a long time.
5. Don’t fall into the trap of imagining that you have to buy each new update. You don’t. Keep that new camera body through one or more upgrade cycles and try to keep lenses even longer.
Good luck!
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