urbanwild
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 Re: After testing Z8 and having focus issues I may go to the Sony A7RV | |
AlphaPhotography wrote:
Thanks for the insight. I'll play around with the AF boxes. I haven't used my Z8 with multiple people in a scene yet so it may prove useful for that. My workflow with Canon is to use wide-AF and it detects each person (eye-AF) with a left/right arrow that allows you to toggle between subjects using the joystick. Does Nikon have anything similar to this?
As for the eyelash AF and Trump's portrait, I'm not sure what settings they used but I'm sure any of us could get a sharp retina in a controlled environment, probably even 95% of the time using eye-AF. What myself and others are concerned with are those strange occasional misses that people have been discussing for a couple years while using eye-AF and why they occur. Is it something that can be adjusted with software? Is it a lens issue? Is it front focusing due to lighting? Obviously difficult to pinpoint but again not an issue I ever saw pop-up with Sony or Canon (except for adapted lenses front focusing many years ago) so it seems to be Nikon specific whatever it is. It's just strange to me that some people seem to pretend it doesn't exist. Maybe it doesn't for some but it's clear that it does for others. My best guess is that it's just the AF algorithm getting confused in certain situations, especially glasses or headwear, occasionally eyelashes for whatever reason. I actually vaguely remember having that issue with glasses shooting Sony many years ago, where it would focus on the glasses instead of the eye (A7RII maybe?)
urbanwild wrote:
AlphaPhotography wrote:
RoamingScott wrote:
The reality of the situation is I could post my exact button layout and settings and in another set of hands, totally different output would be possible due to differing skill levels, reaction times, anticipation zone focusing, and a slew of other factors. I've put in the 10,000 hours and can get great results out of any brand, so these conversations are squarely in the realm of amateurs unwilling to do the same, or pros expecting to pick up a new toy and expect it to work just like their totally different one of which they've put a ton of time into learning the ins and outs.
Then there would be bitching that Scott oversold the capabilities of the camera and must be a brand whore falsely advocating for an inferior product, so why bother with all that?
My Z cameras are on Area with subject detection the vast majority of the time and the results speak for themselves. It's why I post so many photos, to counteract all this inferiority complex FUD propagated by a handful of loser Sony fanboys that come here to waste away their sunset years.
I can assure you that is the wrong approach. There are plenty of extremely helpful settings recommendations on this forum across all brands. To avoid posting your settings because you think it won't work in someone else's hands or because you think you'll get some sort of backlash is silly. This forum was built around helping others and sharing.
But it is good to know that for you Auto Area with subject detection works well. Many others in this thread have inferred that it doesn't and that more complex settings adjustments are needed for consistent focus.
For what it's worth, I also use Area with subject detection where I need autofocus. What I like with the new Nikon cameras is the different shapes of boxes you can use. Some say it's too overwhelming / too much to scroll through, but I often find in busy conditions where I really want to be specific, I quickly change the shape of the AF area to pull the right subject out of the crowd. I do it with a quick spin of a wheel with a button pushed down.....super quick. In very difficult conditions, I may just do spot focus, which again is a quick button press which I've selected. All told, I've been pretty impressed with the AF with the Z8 and Zf. My Z6ii isn't as good (and the Z7 is worse), but both are still very effective with stationary subjects. Eyelash AF comments....well, see my comment earlier.
With my old D500, D25 tracking worked wonders. I don't use that so much anymore as I find the area eye-AF works well on mirrorless. I always thought the D850 AF was inferior to the D500 due to the AF zones available, so I'll infer that the Z8 is better than the D850 without a direct comparison.
I think dangling a comparison with another brand from the get-go just invited a certain individual to the show where he repeats his "Sony is better" rant which is evident in his history of posts.....so no doubt that set the mood in a spiral again. It's similar to going to a restaurant and telling everyone the food there isn't as good as next door. I'll trust that the OP isn't a troll who has 2 accounts and simply suggest staying out of the comparisons and just ask for advice about the system people here use (how effective it is, their workflow, etc). One may say this is a sensitive bunch after years of Sony marketing targeted against Nikon, but the truth is that people here are just a little tired of it now that we're a couple of years beyond the Nikon AF challenges and there's enough in this forum to suggest that Nikon, Canon and Sony are all very similar with AF (despite some small differences). I believe this has been discovered yet again in this thread.
Yes to the first question......easy peasy and I think Nikon was praised for its control over which eye / face you can toggle back and forth with back in the day. One subject to focus on in an uncomplicated field shouldn't be a challenge for these systems in reasonable light.
Sharing the Trump shot was a half-joke because it supported my statement about how the pros will shoot with a tighter aperture to ensure they had the appropriate amount of detail (they weren't shooting at f1.2 in close). If you look back at the shot, you'll notice that his whole head is in focus. When people (like me at times) shoot wide open and get too close because we're excited to shoot wide open, the shots look less professional to me. It's all good fun trying to get a razor thin depth of field just right, but in most cases it doesn't do much in terms of professional-looking images. So eye-AF only hitting the lashes......well, you're probably taking a limited shot anyway regardless of system and retina sharpness from my perspective (others may rightfully disagree).
Where I will agree with you above is with the eye glasses. I definitely find eye- AF will get tricked by eye glasses with my Zf eye-AF (will have to check through Z8 shots). Not sure how this compares with other systems. But again, what I really want is a shot that has the nose, glasses, eye lashes, eyes and the ears all in focus at the least in most images. So I'm fighting myself more than the camera by not stepping back or adjusting my aperture.
I'm not concerned with getting 100% focus accuracy in all types of situations. I think that's a lot to expect out of any system and you can drive yourself nuts trying to sort it out. My livelihood doesn't depend on it and I get many more images than I need in most situations with the AF. What's more important to me are the lenses, feel of the camera, workflow, and more importantly, the IQ / output. I've never been upset with Nikon's AF enough to worry about it, but a search through my images will tell you if your shooting needs differ from mine.
Best advice I can give you though - step away from the keyboard and pick up the Z8  You will learn more from shooting than you will from more time on this thread for now! Congrats on the Z8. It's a phenomenal camera. I'll close this message up with a couple of shots taken with the Z8, an ftz and the 400mm f2.8 (f-mount).....the ironman athletes were cycling at about 35km/h towards me. I used area mode eye-AF. If you go to my website, you'll see more like this. With the Z8, it was like a hot knife through butter getting these athletes in focus. The last shot I added was from a fundraiser where I would have changed the area of the AF box so that I ensured I had the lead rider(s). All of the shots below would have been at f2.8 at 400mm (moving vehicle on the last one I may add). The Z8 is great!
https://www.urbanwildphotography.ca/Ironman-Victoria-703/i-f4q4T7H/A
https://www.urbanwildphotography.ca/Ironman-Victoria-703/i-rXTbM39/A
https://www.urbanwildphotography.ca/Ironman-Victoria-703/i-gj8BGGk/A
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