bernardl wrote: 1bwana1 wrote: bernardl wrote:
Two key elements to consider IMHO are focus and momentum.
And it seems obvious that Nikon is the brand that has demonstrated the highest level of focus on wildlife as well as the highest momentum. They are improving much faster that Canon and Sony.
Considering how close the 3 years old Z9 is vs the latest Canon and Sony it seems obvious that the Z9II will be the best focusing camera on the planet when it ships in 2025.
Add to this the ability to adapt Sony FE mount lenses and things are very clear cut. The best brand on which to base a wildlife set up is Nikon.
I have been reading posts like this from you for the better part of a decade (a9 released in 2017) now. One day it may even come true.
As a former a9II and a9III owner, I don't think you have, no.
I have never debated the fact that the a9/a9II was far ahead in tracking vs the Nikon bodies at the time. That's the very reason why I bought an a9II and I have always been very positive about it's AF performance. The issue I had with the a9II was colors and the lack of lenses I liked in the line up (significantly improved since then with master pieces such as the 50mm f1.2 GM or 35mm f1.4 GM).
But that is beside the point. The point today is that the a1 and Z8/Z9 are very close in AF performance and the a1II is certainly better but isn't a huge upgrade compared to the a1.
This leaves the door opened for Nikon to jump in front... but even if they did I fully agree that it can't be much better than the a1/Z8/Z9 considering how good all these cameras are. Let's not forget that Nikon had a significant lead over Canon in pro sport DSLR focusing performance. AF always was a major strong point with Nikon. It has certainly taken some time to reach the same level of excellent with their mirrorless bodies, but again, just draw the curves plotting the performance vs time and you see a much steeper upward curve on Nikon side. The points where the curves cross is most probably with the Z9II. The contrary would be surprising knowing everything we know at this point.
Since you have emphasized many times in the past that you are not a brand person, I am sure you won't mind.
My point remains that lenses are what matters and this is what has motivated so many wildlife shooters to start using Nikon these past 3 years.
Cheers,
Bernard
I don’t personally care if Nikon surpasses Canon or Sony when it comes to AF for birds in flight. My Z9 already offers performance that will allow me to capture any shot I want. Even a slight bump in competence would be impressive, and although I haven’t shot other brands, I have seen nothing that shows the new Canons/Sonys are anything more than a whisker better, if they are better at all.
Depending on what you shoot - in my case mammals (typically large African cats) the Z9/Z8 is not nearly as fast to acquire the subject as Canon, Sony or Olympus. But more so, when shooting with the Z9/Z9, if the subject is not taking a good amount of the frame then the eyes can be a bit soft at times. I had the Z9 since launch and Z8 since launch along with the 400TC for over 2 years and the 600TC for a year along with a large number of fast S-Line lenses (14-24mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 24-120mm, 70-200mm 2.8, 85mm 1.2, 135mm Plena, 600PF, 800PF, 100-400) so I am fan--the lens selection for wildlife is hands down the best. However that doesn't excuse the fact that Nikon has the weakest oAF subject algorithms of the 3 major FF camera manufacturers and can be at times fairly inconsistent.
bernardl wrote: 1bwana1 wrote: bernardl wrote:
Two key elements to consider IMHO are focus and momentum.
And it seems obvious that Nikon is the brand that has demonstrated the highest level of focus on wildlife as well as the highest momentum. They are improving much faster that Canon and Sony.
Considering how close the 3 years old Z9 is vs the latest Canon and Sony it seems obvious that the Z9II will be the best focusing camera on the planet when it ships in 2025.
Add to this the ability to adapt Sony FE mount lenses and things are very clear cut. The best brand on which to base a wildlife set up is Nikon.
I have been reading posts like this from you for the better part of a decade (a9 released in 2017) now. One day it may even come true.
As a former a9II and a9III owner, I don't think you have, no.
I have never debated the fact that the a9/a9II was far ahead in tracking vs the Nikon bodies at the time. That's the very reason why I bought an a9II and I have always been very positive about it's AF performance. The issue I had with the a9II was colors and the lack of lenses I liked in the line up (significantly improved since then with master pieces such as the 50mm f1.2 GM or 35mm f1.4 GM).
But that is beside the point. The point today is that the a1 and Z8/Z9 are very close in AF performance and the a1II is certainly better but isn't a huge upgrade compared to the a1.
This leaves the door opened for Nikon to jump in front... but even if they did I fully agree that it can't be much better than the a1/Z8/Z9 considering how good all these cameras are. Let's not forget that Nikon had a significant lead over Canon in pro sport DSLR focusing performance. AF always was a major strong point with Nikon. It has certainly taken some time to reach the same level of excellent with their mirrorless bodies, but again, just draw the curves plotting the performance vs time and you see a much steeper upward curve on Nikon side. The points where the curves cross is most probably with the Z9II. The contrary would be surprising knowing everything we know at this point.
Since you have emphasized many times in the past that you are not a brand person, I am sure you won't mind.
My point remains that lenses are what matters and this is what has motivated so many wildlife shooters to start using Nikon these past 3 years.
Cheers,
Bernard
I don’t personally care if Nikon surpasses Canon or Sony when it comes to AF for birds in flight. My Z9 already offers performance that will allow me to capture any shot I want. Even a slight bump in competence would be impressive, and although I haven’t shot other brands, I have seen nothing that shows the new Canons/Sonys are anything more than a whisker better, if they are better at all.
Depending on what you shoot - in my case mammals (typically large African cats) the Z9/Z8 is not nearly as fast to acquire the subject as Canon, Sony or Olympus. But more so, when shooting with the Z9/Z9, if the subject is not taking a good amount of the frame then the eyes can be a bit soft at times. I had the Z9 since launch and Z8 since launch along with the 400TC for over 2 years and the 600TC for a year along with a large number of fast S-Line lenses (14-24mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 24-120mm, 70-200mm 2.8, 85mm 1.2, 135mm Plena, 600PF, 800PF, 100-400) so I a fan. However that doesn't excuse the fact that Nikon has the weakest oAF subject algorithms of the 3 major FF camera manufacturers and can be at times fairly inconsistent.
bernardl wrote: 1bwana1 wrote: bernardl wrote:
Two key elements to consider IMHO are focus and momentum.
And it seems obvious that Nikon is the brand that has demonstrated the highest level of focus on wildlife as well as the highest momentum. They are improving much faster that Canon and Sony.
Considering how close the 3 years old Z9 is vs the latest Canon and Sony it seems obvious that the Z9II will be the best focusing camera on the planet when it ships in 2025.
Add to this the ability to adapt Sony FE mount lenses and things are very clear cut. The best brand on which to base a wildlife set up is Nikon.
I have been reading posts like this from you for the better part of a decade (a9 released in 2017) now. One day it may even come true.
As a former a9II and a9III owner, I don't think you have, no.
I have never debated the fact that the a9/a9II was far ahead in tracking vs the Nikon bodies at the time. That's the very reason why I bought an a9II and I have always been very positive about it's AF performance. The issue I had with the a9II was colors and the lack of lenses I liked in the line up (significantly improved since then with master pieces such as the 50mm f1.2 GM or 35mm f1.4 GM).
But that is beside the point. The point today is that the a1 and Z8/Z9 are very close in AF performance and the a1II is certainly better but isn't a huge upgrade compared to the a1.
This leaves the door opened for Nikon to jump in front... but even if they did I fully agree that it can't be much better than the a1/Z8/Z9 considering how good all these cameras are. Let's not forget that Nikon had a significant lead over Canon in pro sport DSLR focusing performance. AF always was a major strong point with Nikon. It has certainly taken some time to reach the same level of excellent with their mirrorless bodies, but again, just draw the curves plotting the performance vs time and you see a much steeper upward curve on Nikon side. The points where the curves cross is most probably with the Z9II. The contrary would be surprising knowing everything we know at this point.
Since you have emphasized many times in the past that you are not a brand person, I am sure you won't mind.
My point remains that lenses are what matters and this is what has motivated so many wildlife shooters to start using Nikon these past 3 years.
Cheers,
Bernard
I don’t personally care if Nikon surpasses Canon or Sony when it comes to AF for birds in flight. My Z9 already offers performance that will allow me to capture any shot I want. Even a slight bump in competence would be impressive, and although I haven’t shot other brands, I have seen nothing that shows the new Canons/Sonys are anything more than a whisker better, if they are better at all.
Depending on what you shoot - in my case mammals (typically large African cats) the Z9/Z8 is not nearly as fast to acquire the subject as Canon, Sony or Olympus. But more so, when shooting with the Z9/Z9, if the subject is not taking a good amount of the frame then the eyes can be a bit soft at times. I had the Z9 since launch and Z8 since launch along with the 400TC for over 2 years and the 600TC for a year along with a large number of fast S-Line lenses (14-24mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 85mm 1.2, 135mm Plena, 600PF, 800PF, 100-400) so I a fan. However that doesn't excuse the fact that Nikon has the weakest oAF subject algorithms of the 3 major FF camera manufacturers and can be at times fairly inconsistent.
bernardl wrote: 1bwana1 wrote: bernardl wrote:
Two key elements to consider IMHO are focus and momentum.
And it seems obvious that Nikon is the brand that has demonstrated the highest level of focus on wildlife as well as the highest momentum. They are improving much faster that Canon and Sony.
Considering how close the 3 years old Z9 is vs the latest Canon and Sony it seems obvious that the Z9II will be the best focusing camera on the planet when it ships in 2025.
Add to this the ability to adapt Sony FE mount lenses and things are very clear cut. The best brand on which to base a wildlife set up is Nikon.
I have been reading posts like this from you for the better part of a decade (a9 released in 2017) now. One day it may even come true.
As a former a9II and a9III owner, I don't think you have, no.
I have never debated the fact that the a9/a9II was far ahead in tracking vs the Nikon bodies at the time. That's the very reason why I bought an a9II and I have always been very positive about it's AF performance. The issue I had with the a9II was colors and the lack of lenses I liked in the line up (significantly improved since then with master pieces such as the 50mm f1.2 GM or 35mm f1.4 GM).
But that is beside the point. The point today is that the a1 and Z8/Z9 are very close in AF performance and the a1II is certainly better but isn't a huge upgrade compared to the a1.
This leaves the door opened for Nikon to jump in front... but even if they did I fully agree that it can't be much better than the a1/Z8/Z9 considering how good all these cameras are. Let's not forget that Nikon had a significant lead over Canon in pro sport DSLR focusing performance. AF always was a major strong point with Nikon. It has certainly taken some time to reach the same level of excellent with their mirrorless bodies, but again, just draw the curves plotting the performance vs time and you see a much steeper upward curve on Nikon side. The points where the curves cross is most probably with the Z9II. The contrary would be surprising knowing everything we know at this point.
Since you have emphasized many times in the past that you are not a brand person, I am sure you won't mind.
My point remains that lenses are what matters and this is what has motivated so many wildlife shooters to start using Nikon these past 3 years.
Cheers,
Bernard
I don’t personally care if Nikon surpasses Canon or Sony when it comes to AF for birds in flight. My Z9 already offers performance that will allow me to capture any shot I want. Even a slight bump in competence would be impressive, and although I haven’t shot other brands, I have seen nothing that shows the new Canons/Sonys are anything more than a whisker better, if they are better at all.
Depending on what you shoot - in my case mammals (typically large African cats) the Z9/Z8 is not nearly as fast to acquire the subject as Canon, Sony or Olympus. But more so, when shooting with the Z9/Z9, if the subject is not taking a good amount of the frame then the eyes can be a bit soft at times. I had the Z9 since launch and Z8 since launch along with the 400TC for over 2 years and the 600TC for a year along with a large number of fast S-Line lenses (14-24mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 85mm 1.2, 135mm Plena, 600PF, 800PF, 100-400) so I a fan. However that doesn't excuse the fact that Nikon has the weakest oAF subject algorithms of the 3 major FF camera manufacturers and can be at times fairly inconsistent.
bernardl wrote: 1bwana1 wrote: bernardl wrote:
Two key elements to consider IMHO are focus and momentum.
And it seems obvious that Nikon is the brand that has demonstrated the highest level of focus on wildlife as well as the highest momentum. They are improving much faster that Canon and Sony.
Considering how close the 3 years old Z9 is vs the latest Canon and Sony it seems obvious that the Z9II will be the best focusing camera on the planet when it ships in 2025.
Add to this the ability to adapt Sony FE mount lenses and things are very clear cut. The best brand on which to base a wildlife set up is Nikon.
I have been reading posts like this from you for the better part of a decade (a9 released in 2017) now. One day it may even come true.
As a former a9II and a9III owner, I don't think you have, no.
I have never debated the fact that the a9/a9II was far ahead in tracking vs the Nikon bodies at the time. That's the very reason why I bought an a9II and I have always been very positive about it's AF performance. The issue I had with the a9II was colors and the lack of lenses I liked in the line up (significantly improved since then with master pieces such as the 50mm f1.2 GM or 35mm f1.4 GM).
But that is beside the point. The point today is that the a1 and Z8/Z9 are very close in AF performance and the a1II is certainly better but isn't a huge upgrade compared to the a1.
This leaves the door opened for Nikon to jump in front... but even if they did I fully agree that it can't be much better than the a1/Z8/Z9 considering how good all these cameras are. Let's not forget that Nikon had a significant lead over Canon in pro sport DSLR focusing performance. AF always was a major strong point with Nikon. It has certainly taken some time to reach the same level of excellent with their mirrorless bodies, but again, just draw the curves plotting the performance vs time and you see a much steeper upward curve on Nikon side. The points where the curves cross is most probably with the Z9II. The contrary would be surprising knowing everything we know at this point.
Since you have emphasized many times in the past that you are not a brand person, I am sure you won't mind.
My point remains that lenses are what matters and this is what has motivated so many wildlife shooters to start using Nikon these past 3 years.
Cheers,
Bernard
I don’t personally care if Nikon surpasses Canon or Sony when it comes to AF for birds in flight. My Z9 already offers performance that will allow me to capture any shot I want. Even a slight bump in competence would be impressive, and although I haven’t shot other brands, I have seen nothing that shows the new Canons/Sonys are anything more than a whisker better, if they are better at all.
Depending on what you shoot - in my case mammals (typically large African cats) the Z9/Z8 is not nearly as fast to acquire the subject as Canon, Sony or Olympus. But more so, when shooting with the Z9/Z9, if the subject is not taking a good amount of the frame then the eyes can be a bit soft at times. I had the Z9 since launch and Z8 since launch along with the 400TC for over 2 years and the 600TC for a year along with a large number of fast S-Line lenses (14-24mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 85mm 1.2, 135mm Plena) so I a fan. However that doesn't excuse the fact that Nikon has the weakest oAF subject algorithms of the 3 major FF camera manufacturers and can be at times fairly inconsistent.
Dec 23, 2024 at 03:19 PM
Previous versions of robert_in_ca's message #16713574 « Is Nikon AF (Z9/8) really that much worse? »
