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 Re: Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review | |
Fred Miranda wrote:
Steve Spencer wrote:
When we consider this Simera line of lenses as a whole, I am of two minds.
I respect Phillip and agree that Thypoch/DZO has a very interesting approach and lineage. That makes me optimistic about these lenses. Fred's extensive review, which demonstrates strong performance, IMO, for the 50 f/1.4, and Nehemiah's tests with the 50 T1.5 cine lens and especially his evidence that the cine lens was optimized for the Sony sensor gives me further confidence Thypoch/DZO have done a great job with that lens both for Leica M mount and Sony E mount.
That said, I also respect Nehemiah, and value his take on the Simera 35 f/1.4 and he had major reservations about that lens and pointed out some possible serious flaws. Maybe he just got a bad copy of the lens, but that lens design is clearly based on the Leica M 35 lux FLE and I know from having the Leica M 50 lux Asph and the 35 lux FLE that the two lenses don't render very similarly. We know from Fred's review that the Simera 50 f/1.4 renders a lot like the Leica M 50 lux Asph, so what does that mean for the Simera 35 f/1.4. To me either it renders like the similarly designed Leica M 35 lux FLE, in which case it doesn't render like the Simera 50 f/1.4 (a situation somewhat problematic for the cine lens line), or despite having a similar design to the Leica M 35 lux FLE, Thypoch/DZO tweaked the rendering of the lens to make it render more like the Simera 50 f/1.4/Leica M 50 lux Asph. If they did the latter, which I would kind of expect given the desire to have similar rendering in cine lenses, then perhaps Nehemiah's lens was not a bad copy and their efforts to produce a similar rendering to the 50 resulted in less than optimum performance. So, I am very interested in whether the 35 f/1.4 is in the same league as the 50 f/1.4. I have hope it might be, but I also have serious concerns it might not.
It seems to me a plausible sequence that Thypoch/DZO made the Simera 50 f/1.4 based on the design of the Leica M 50 lux Asph. It turned out spectacularly as we have seen. They then or at the same time made the Simera 35 f/1.4 based on the design of the Leica M 35 lux FLE and it turned out good enough for their goals but not as good as the 50. They then or at the same time made the Simera 28 f/1.4 and didn't make it based on an existing design (I can't find an existing 28 that has a similar design to the Simera 28--the Leica M 28 lux Asph is a fairly different design). How it fares in performance is still to be seen. To me it looks promising, but I still have some doubts based on Nehemiah's experience with the Simera 35 and some comments it is low contrast wide open. Finally, it appears that 75 f/1.4 may have been developed a bit later and we don't, AFAIK, have a diagram with its design to see if it is similar to an existing lens. Personally, I am very interested in the performance of this lens as it is both small and fast for the focal length and if it performs like the 50, it would be a great addition to my kit. Beyond that we know a 21mm is coming, but we know almost nothing about that lens.
So, I am optimistic about this line of lenses, but cautiously so and I worry that it may only be the 50 that I really want. I am very curious to see how the testing for the other lenses in this series turns out.
Hi Steve,
Could it be that the Simera 35/1.4 ASPH. resembles the look of the Leica 35/1.4 ASPH. (pre-FLE) more closely? I know the Simera is equipped with a floating group, but perhaps it renders more similarly to the Leica pre-FLE, which I’ve heard produces slightly lower contrast and smoother transitions compared to the FLE.
One pretty notable thing about the ASPH pre-fle 35 Lux is also much different micro-contrast and tonal palate (easily lower than the FLE), and the 35 Pre-FLE has more (too much) axial CA. I have owned it. To be honest, I thought that was a really disappointing lens by Leica. It didn't really hit the compromise of modern/subtle with personality. For that, I would prefer a 31 Pentax. I do enjoy the 35 Lux FLE (distinctly modern) and 35 Lux pre-asph (high degree of character). This is a great review that goes beyond test charts, comparing the 35 Lux ASPH FLE and Pre-FLE:
https://www.pebbleplace.com/reviews/rangefinder/leica_35mm_summilux_fle/index.html
I would guess the 35 Lux ASPH could be thought of as closer to the 35 Simera. Also, after spending more time with the 50 Simera, I have found it to be distinctly lower in micro-contrast than the 50 Lux or 50/1.4 ZA. The contrast in general is on the mid to high side, but micro-contrast is not cracking, nor are the colors as lovely. It's still much better than the 35 Simera by some margin, and a great offering. To learn the lens behavior, I have been doing some serious color profiling. When you really study the 50 Simera against even the ZA 50/1.4, the Simera is very clean with more luminous colors and lower saturation. I have made a profile to match the ZA 50/1.4 and 35 Lux FLE colors pretty well. See below:
@SteveSpencer Go read If you go and read Bastian's review, and you'll find what I have said about the 35 Simera. Contrast WO is lower and off-central, even midzone resolution WO is poor. You'll see a good amount of SA WO until 2.8. Corners need a while to be even decent. You'll also find despite the FLE, the lens needs a couple stops to be contrasty and sharp at MFD, unlike the 35 Lux FLE. You'll also find the corners really aren't great till a couple stops down, and actually need the 5.6-8 range. Ergo is really bad and size is larger. I think the bokeh is smooth structurally somewhat, but it's also much lower contrast which helps. As far as Phillip, I am not sure if he's actually owned the 35 Simera. I asked earlier if he had actually shot the Simeras he has many opinions on, but he ignored the questions (which was sincere). I think spending some time with a lens really is vital to understanding it's attributes. And for you, or Fred, or others, I have 35 Simera raws I can email if you're interested. Just PM.
If I want that kind of rendering--less character, bokeh centric and not need high micro-contrast/some SA, reasonable MFD and not decent across the frame till stopped down, I still think the CV 35/1.2viii is the best bet.
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