ilkka_nissila
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 Re: Finally, Z6 III rumors | |
molson wrote:
ilkka_nissila wrote:
molson wrote:
CanadaMark wrote:
molson wrote:
CanadaMark wrote:
akul wrote:
CanadaMark wrote:
Exactly as expected, more/less a Zf in a more modern package 
Not really, A new BSI 24.5MP sensor. A different animal. Hopefully with new AF sensor layout. Old sensor doesn't cut it at this point.
Luka
The Z6II already uses a 24.5 MP BSI sensor. The "new" one will almost certainly be a slight revision to the same unit if not identical. Regardless of what optimizations they do to it, it will not be much different assuming the rumor figures are accurate. It's already a fantastic sensor. The only significant improvement they can realistically make is a slight bump to readout speed because it won't be stacked and resolution is the same - DR and ISO performance reached a plateau about 10 years ago. I will be very surprised if it's not the exact same sensor but with perhaps an increased number of PDAF points, which does not require an all new sensor to be used.
If anything I thought they would bump it up to ~30MP, but if they are keeping the Z7 line, it would make less sense to do so.
What do you feel doesn't cut it with the existing Z6II sensor?
They could drop the blur filter, although that would probably make noise more visible.
Do you mean the AA / OLPF? If so it's there to help with moiré/aliasing which larger pixels are much more prone to. The Z6 is also the more video focused camera compared to the Z7 and those filters are also there for video shooters. It's the same reason why the 24MP Sony bodies (including the A9 I, II, and III) have AA filters as well as the A7S line but was dropped in the A7 line when they finally bumped the resolution to 33MP in the A74 (or on the "R" bodies). There's also different strengths and orientations of AA filters, so they aren't all the same. Depending on how you used the camera, there would be just as many users who would prefer Nikon keeps it on that particular sensor If they bumped it to 30MP+ then almost certainly it would have no OLPF. At 24MP they are much more likely to keep the OLPF.
It shouldn't affect noise unless maybe you are over-sharpening to try and over-compensate for the AA filter effect in some cases. The D800E actually has slightly better noise handling than the D800, for example, but it's an interesting case because it doesn't actually lack an AA filter, it simply has another layer to reverse the effect which made it cheaper to produce alongside the D800. Regardless, AA filter or not, noise wouldn't be affected to a degree that would ever affect the final image in a meaningful way, especially with today's RAW converters.
Most other manufacturers have known for close to a decade now that the blur filters are no longer needed. They don't eliminate moire, and they reduce the sharpness of the image (which is why they are known as "blur filters" despite the attempts by camera marketing departments to brand them as something more benign, like "OLPF". On cameras like the Z6 the blur filter does have the unintended benefit of reducing the appearance of noise by blurring it so it becomes less noticeable.
I believe all the major manufacturers (maybe not Leica) use optical low-pass filters on 24 MP sensors of 35 mm size.
Kodak used to make a 14 MP full-frame sensor without OLPF and it was infamous for the prolific artifacts that it produced.
The OLPF should not have any significant effect on noise at least not on large areas of the frame (there may be some on a single pixel level because the content of pixels does change and so does photon shot noise on those pixels). But overall it doesn't make the image darker or brighter so it should have no large-scale effect on noise.
From noted Nikon expert, Thom Hogan:
"On top of the image sensor we have a low pass filter, unlike the Z7. This filter steals a little acuity from edges and anti-aliases the data, but that also has the tendency to mask some of the photon noise, too."
Don't believe the "experts".
There is no significant difference in SNR, color sensitivity, tonal range, or dynamic range between the D800 and D800E, according to DXOMark's measurements; there is a 1 point difference in overall score, which is not statistically significant. The only difference between the two cameras is the AA filter. (They gave 1 point different scores between the D3 and D700 although Nikon claims those two are identical where it comes to the components that capture and process the image data. This gives further evidence that 1-point difference in DXOMark overall score can easily happen by chance.)
https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D800-versus-Nikon-D800E___792_814
In this case the D800E happens to be slightly better in SNR (looking at the measurement graphs), which one could take to imply that the self-cancelling OLPF actually reduces the noise over the functional OLPF, but this is unlikely to be a real effect (more likely the difference is due to random variation in sensors between two camera samples and the random variation in DXOMark's measurement process; if they repeated the measurement with another pair possibly they'd get a different result).
I'd be happy to see evidence to the contrary. If the OLPF fixes major errors in the RGB data (by removing high frequencies that cause aliasing) then the high and low values of some adjacent pixels may be leveled out and this would indeed reduce the photon shot noise slightly but this difference would be overwhelmed by the presence or absence of moire in the picture, and this effect would not exist in even areas of the frame, which is where noise is usually most noticeable.
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