chiron
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 Re: Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II | |
j4nu wrote:
chiron wrote:
newdom wrote:
j4nu wrote:
newdom wrote:
I think the issue is somewhat overblown, personally - reading this forum it sounds like Sony have made the biggest product mistake since the Titanic. But I suspect when it's actually released and people start using it they'll realise it's going to be a pretty amazing bit of kit for the size and money.
I wonder how many people actually use the full shutter anyway? Doesn't EFCS default to On for most Sony mirrorless cameras? I don't think I've ever used the full/double shutter because of the noise and image softening but can't remember if changing it is part of my setup workflow or not. I've actually gone back and tried to find examples of cut bokeh in my photos but haven't been able to yet. I love shooting wide open so I thought I would see more. Depends on your typical shooting environment I guess.
I agree - it is overblown, as it really depends on your shooting habits, e.g. if you like wide-open portraits in full sun on the beach then you can most likely use electronic shutter (given you can convince your models to be still  ).
Hear me out though, A7C series is widely regarded as a travel cam. When I travel, it's often to sunny places  but with A7C and a fast lens I can only stop down to shoot my kids running around on the beach or splashing in the water. Otherwise I'd need to wade through a number of shots with either distorted limbs or degraded bokeh hoping I can find a few keepers. It's not the end of the world, but it's just a crappy situation to be in with a new cam released in 2023 (and the new sensors are even slower than the one in the original A7C)...
I've just taken two beach holidays with my A7C and a lunatic toddler, shot exclusively with electronic shutter, and I don't think I had a single shot with movement distortion - if he really gets the zoomies or splashing around in the sea I put it into continuous mode to capture more shots and speed up the readout and lower the distortion anyway. I always prefer to shoot family and street with ES to intrude less into the scene. I shot two motorsport events recently with mechanical (EFCS obviously) and I scanned through yesterday out of interest and couldn't see any cut bokeh even at high shutter speeds, although I mostly used an f1.4 indoors and a telephoto zoom outdoors. I'm aware of the limitations of EFCS and I love shooting wide open with lots of creamy bokeh, but EFCS has never bothered me enough to override the extra noise/shutter shock of full mechanical.
I would have thought the situations where you're photographing a) outdoors, b) wide open with a wide aperture lens, c) with mechanical EFCS, d) with significant bokeh balls, and e) in a situation where it would really bother you if there was the odd bit of cut bokeh, is really pretty limited. And if you regularly find yourself in those situations, then this obviously isn't the camera for you. This camera isn't meant for you, move on to one of the many bodies that is meant for you (that's a general comment not for you j4nu!). It's obviously not meant for 'professional' use (which is a crappy term anyway - lots of 'amateur' photographers/photography has a greater artistic merit than 'professional').
Boy did you nail my experiences and thoughts exactly. I owned two A7C cameras, used them a lot for travel, outdoor street shooting and with children and at family gatherings. There was never a problem with bokeh or motion distortion. Sony doesn't seem to worry much about bokeh with EFCS either, since they put it in the A1. (Yes, I know, the A1 has a 1/240th second sensor read-out that deals with rolling shutter and most LED banding--but the faster readout has no influence on theoretical bokeh issues).
Not to bee too picky but Sony does mention the EFCS influence on bokeh:
https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2230/v1/en/contents/TP0002887782.html
When you shoot at high shutter speeds with a large-aperture lens attached, out-of-focus circle produced by the bokeh effect may get cut off because of the shutter mechanism. If this happens, set [e-Front Curtain Shut.] to [Off].
On A1, EFCS is mostly for faster flash sync I think, as fully electronic shutter is fast enough for the most part .
I can post a dozen of pictures from A1 from my recent "testing" if you want, but I don't want to be forever known as the EFCS bokeh guy here ...
Yes, you are in danger of getting that reputation! I would point out that the pictures you showed are still test pictures rather than real, authentically taken photographs. The only "real" photograph that I have seen that shows this effect is one that was posted precisely because the photographer so loved the look of the bokeh and the lens's rendering in the photograph! Sony does mention the possible effect on bokeh with EFCS when combined with both very high shutter speeds and very large apertures, but they still chose to put EFCS in the A1. So, they weren't concerned about it as a real factor.
It just doesn't seem like it is much of a problem except in fringe circumstances, and there are major gains from an EFCS setting (if full ES can't be used for some reason, like stadium scoreboard LEDs) in terms of eliminating shutter shock, reducing shutter lag, and actually being able to see the moment of exposure. These benefits take place every time the shutter is released with EFCS.
I'll take those constant benefits of EFCS anytime over the rare and almost entirely theoretical problem of EFCS bokeh.
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