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 Re: Sony A1 and Zeiss Loxia Malfunctions | |
I pretty much agree what that assessment of the problem, it's along the lines of what I was thinking too.
My dilemma is that I find it hard to find a path to put pressure on Sony to fix, if Zeiss won't say anything as to whose problem it is to solve. If Zeiss said it was a Sony problem. Boom, I'd focus more on bugging Sony. Working with vendors, I would at least like Zeiss to point the finger at Sony, even if they won't work with Sony to resolve it. (Honestly I would expect Zeiss to work on behalf of their customers to pressure Sony to fix it...assuming it is Sony's problem to fix). If Zeiss did that, I think it would get fixed. If they do that and Sony doesn't fix it, I'm not sure the small niche of Loxia users are going to make Sony succeed in fixing it. There are no warnings from Zeiss that the lenses they are actively selling may not work with newer Sony cameras. That's kind of sucky.
I understand the argument that "Sony broke it". But Sony has shared the specifications with 3rd parties who have signed up for E mount. So it seems strange to me that they aren't following their own spec anymore. AND it only affects Zeiss Loxia (not Batis) lenses, as well as Voigtlander (who many people think manufacture the Loxia lenses for Zeiss.). And no other 3rd party manufacturer was affected. I suspect, like I think you do, that Zeiss (and Voigtlander) maybe got fudgy close to following the spec......but are close to the edge of being out of spec. And depending on individual copies, it can maybe fall into spec, or fall out of spec.... In other words Sony is following their own spec more closely with the new cameras, or the fudge factor/tolerance to the spec has changed, and that fudge factor was allowing the Loxia lenses to function properly.
Do we have any examples where an OEM updated firmware to have their cameras work with 3rd party lenses that appear to have a compatibility issues, when that 3rd party doesn't seem to give clear acknowledgement as to whose problem it is to fix? I do have correspondence from Zeiss (Via their Facebook account) that they are aware of the problem, and that the lens can be sent in for a fix. Granted in Europe....but you get the idea. So at this point it's hard to knock me off bugging Zeiss.
Bokehddicted wrote:
I posted the theory below one year ago.
I am still certainly it is a Sony E-mount protocol tolerance problem:
The aperture value is not a discrete value: 1.4, 2.0, 2.8 but rather either an analog signal or digital continuous value in the spec of the protocol.
In either case the focus assist zoom mode needs to make a decision when at what delta a change of aperture is making it snap out of focus assist.
At some point in the chain, the analog signal of the position of the aperture ring needs to be transformed into a digital value. Either in the lens (if E-mount protocol for aperture is digital) or in the camera (if analog).
The camera needs to have a ‚threshold‘ at what delta a ‚change‘ happened.
The problem is likely that there is slight jitter (mechanical and/or electric) in the signal before digitalization.
A threshold window too narrow will make any form of random high jitter be interpreted as ‚change‘ and it will snap out of magnification.
Up to a certain camera generation, Sony cameras had a signal path and or jitter tolerance that did not break this function.
Starting with A1, A7s3, A7r5 (maybe others) this changed so that seem to have changed so that now manual lenses like Loxia or Voigtlander ‚slip through‘ in terms of their level of tolerance in regard to the aperture signal value stream.
Some lenses are within tolerance to still work, but might slip later. Others will stay in tolerance forever.
The theory explains everything anyone ever posted on the issue.
And it could be easily changed.
BY SONY.
They could change the tolerance value for aperture value triggering for the magnifaction feature so that it quite a bit more tolerant. To the point that it would work again for everyone like it did with older bodies.
BY FIRMWARE UPDATE
Neither Zeiss nor Voigtlander should need to change anything. Tolerance and jitter slip has to be accommodated for in the Sony E-mount spec and Sony firmware.
IMHO obviously. I dont have insight knowledge but lots of experience in related fields.
Anyone supporting this? Would change who to put pressure on.
Bokehddicted wrote:
For me the problem is rather obvious.
The zoom function is designed to stay zoomed while you focus. And to get out of zoom when anything (or some defined things) change. For buttons it is easy. If you press some, it snaps out of it.
For things that have a more ‚analogue‘ readout, like the aperture on the Loxia. Even if the aperture is not in declicked mode, there seems to be a rather broad range of non-discrete values being communicates from the lens to the body.
The function that needs to make a call whether something ‚changed‘ needs to make ‚threshold‘ check, rather than a binary button check.
In my theory, they might have changed that threshold for those more non-discrete things, or only for the aprerture in particular.
That would explain many things. You might have a body or a firmware with wider or more narrow threshold.
And your particular lens, old or young, might be within the tolerance to trigger.
Anyone see some sense here?
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