I'm with you. If an image looks like it came from a Zeiss lens....what does it matter who designed the lens? Sure Zeiss designed lenses may have more of the "Zeiss look"...at least more consistently, it doesn't mean that a lens "not designed" by Zeiss can't have those similar qualities. And we know that whoever designed the lenses, it is using Zeiss coatings.
Full disclosure, I have the Batis 18, 25, 40, and 135. So none of my comments in this thread was intended to be negative in any way in regards to Batis lenses.
LBJ2 wrote: tsdevine wrote:
No I haven't. But multiple people on this thread absolutely insist that Zeiss designed all the Batis lenses. So I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I haven't seen any Zeiss patents that cover the lenses where it looks like there are Tamron patents. For some of the Batis lenses there are ever so slight differences between the block diagram Zeiss publishes and the Tamron patent block diagram...but they are super close. And no where have I seen the Tamron patent refer to any Zeiss patents.
LBJ2 wrote: tsdevine wrote:
If I were the Zeiss optical engineer who designed it, I'd still be miffed that a Tamron employee was listed as the inventor.
But I guess as an employee, he has to agree to whatever Zeiss arranges.
darrellc wrote: tsdevine wrote:
If I were Zeiss, I'd be suing Tamron. A company should protect their intellectual property. Talking about the Batis 18 in this case.
I don't understand the point of a patent if you can literally take the exact same block diagram as a lens design owned by Zeiss. Sure you can play around with the exact makeup of the element, but that makes it seem like you could copy anyone's design. They literally show the exact same elements as the Zeiss published Batis 18/2.8 design.
Robin Smith wrote:
Completely agree that Zeiss designs all of the lenses with "Zeiss" on them. The are not necessarily manufactured by them, but they are all to their designs and hopefully to their QC, any self-respecting optical company should be assuring their output matched the specs and quality requirements specified in the design. That's what they do. Apparent similarities between Tamron etc designs and Zeiss lenses are I'm pretty sure simply down to the design constraints imposed on all lenses of the same specs.
A different way to interpret those findings is as proof that Zeiss has a commercial arrangement with Tamron around those lenses that includes Tamron ownership of the patents.
Maybe I missed this, but have you found the Zeiss Batis patent that existed before the Tamron patent?
Thanks for the reply. I was just curious if you found something.
And just to join this discussion with my own thoughts and hands-on experience:
FWIW, I bought and used all of the Batis Zeiss lenses. I never felt I was not shooting anything other than a Zeiss lens even though I saw the very similar Tamron patents posted on-line back in 2015. From what I read, if a Tamron engineer did in fact design the optical formula used in the Batis lenses and/or manufactured the same, apparently not an uncommon practice for years now. Lots of collaboration across the various manufacturers and brands. Or as I read on a very popular blog, something along the lines of "lots of similar secrets" across all the brands.
The ZEISS Look as defined on the Zeiss Batis page is defined and illustrated as "Sharpness | 3D pop | True color" As a customer I expect its Zeiss responsibility to make sure this is what I experience when I buy and use Zeiss products no mater who designed and/or manufactured or not. https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-products/us/home/website/photography/zeiss-batis-lenses.html
I'm with you. If an image looks like it came from a Zeiss lens....what does it matter who designed the lens. Sure Zeiss designed lenses may have more of the "Zeiss look"...at least more consistently, it doesn't mean that a lens "not designed" by Zeiss can't have those similar qualities. And we know that whoever designed the lenses, it is using Zeiss coatings.
Full disclosure, I have the Batis 18, 25, 40, and 135. So none of my comments in this thread was intended to be negative in any way in regards to Batis lenses.
LBJ2 wrote: tsdevine wrote:
No I haven't. But multiple people on this thread absolutely insist that Zeiss designed all the Batis lenses. So I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I haven't seen any Zeiss patents that cover the lenses where it looks like there are Tamron patents. For some of the Batis lenses there are ever so slight differences between the block diagram Zeiss publishes and the Tamron patent block diagram...but they are super close. And no where have I seen the Tamron patent refer to any Zeiss patents.
LBJ2 wrote: tsdevine wrote:
If I were the Zeiss optical engineer who designed it, I'd still be miffed that a Tamron employee was listed as the inventor.
But I guess as an employee, he has to agree to whatever Zeiss arranges.
darrellc wrote: tsdevine wrote:
If I were Zeiss, I'd be suing Tamron. A company should protect their intellectual property. Talking about the Batis 18 in this case.
I don't understand the point of a patent if you can literally take the exact same block diagram as a lens design owned by Zeiss. Sure you can play around with the exact makeup of the element, but that makes it seem like you could copy anyone's design. They literally show the exact same elements as the Zeiss published Batis 18/2.8 design.
Robin Smith wrote:
Completely agree that Zeiss designs all of the lenses with "Zeiss" on them. The are not necessarily manufactured by them, but they are all to their designs and hopefully to their QC, any self-respecting optical company should be assuring their output matched the specs and quality requirements specified in the design. That's what they do. Apparent similarities between Tamron etc designs and Zeiss lenses are I'm pretty sure simply down to the design constraints imposed on all lenses of the same specs.
A different way to interpret those findings is as proof that Zeiss has a commercial arrangement with Tamron around those lenses that includes Tamron ownership of the patents.
Maybe I missed this, but have you found the Zeiss Batis patent that existed before the Tamron patent?
Thanks for the reply. I was just curious if you found something.
And just to join this discussion with my own thoughts and hands-on experience:
FWIW, I bought and used all of the Batis Zeiss lenses. I never felt I was not shooting anything other than a Zeiss lens even though I saw the very similar Tamron patents posted on-line back in 2015. From what I read, if a Tamron engineer did in fact design the optical formula used in the Batis lenses and/or manufactured the same, apparently not an uncommon practice for years now. Lots of collaboration across the various manufacturers and brands. Or as I read on a very popular blog, something along the lines of "lots of similar secrets" across all the brands.
The ZEISS Look as defined on the Zeiss Batis page is defined and illustrated as "Sharpness | 3D pop | True color" As a customer I expect its Zeiss responsibility to make sure this is what I experience when I buy and use Zeiss products no mater who designed and/or manufactured or not. https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-products/us/home/website/photography/zeiss-batis-lenses.html
Jun 09, 2023 at 02:46 PM
Previous versions of tsdevine's message #16266591 « ZEISS exits lens business »
