Re: Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote: groob wrote:
arbitrage wrote: groob wrote:
arbitrage wrote: dcisive wrote:
The way I interpret Jan's video was while he initially had issues with losing a bird when near brush or water, when he got smart and adjusted to a Custom box that was smaller and rectangular, it eliminated his issue altogether which he also was very clear about, stating it was the best performance he'd seen to date. So he learned that the Z8 (like the Z9) was not designed to be an "auto pilot" mentality when shooting, but rather giving the user the full flexibility to dial it in for each specific shooting scenario. Professionals tend to want that, and that is the audience Nikon has sought all these years. And they are nailing it. Canon and Sony are for autopilot folks. I have an A7RV currently awaiting a Z8 and while missing focus is NOT my issue with the Sony due to it's advanced AI tech, there are other aspects of the Z8 I am very curious to experience.
I'd prefer the camera that is good in autopilot AND has full flexibility to dial it in. There is one brand out there that has the best autopilot (ie stick it in full sensor AF without tracking and it will nail almost anything moving) AND it also has the most flexibility in how you can use its 7 AF modes because all 7 can either be used restricted to their individual areas OR combined with tracking so you can target a subject or specific part of a subject with a small point and then have it track frame wide. You are experienced in that system so you've tasted the good stuff. When you experience that Z8 you won't feel like you have more flexibility...you will feel the exact opposite.
Now Nikon's system is nice that you can customize the size of the Wide Area box...that was a powerful addition to the system. What Nikon should add now is an option where those AF modes can be setup to either work as they do now OR to initiate within and then track throughout. Nikon only has this option in 3D mode but that uses such a small box that it is very hard to target fast subjects. AutoAF works if backgrounds are far away and OOF but unfortunately Z AutoAF does not share the uncanny ability of F-mount DLSR Auto AF which could basically do what Sony Wide can do...ie....autopilot mode
Canon sort of went two steps forward, one step back when they changed the AF mode behavior in the R3 and onwards compared to the R5. Now the AF modes do track over the frame after initializing with the selected AF area but unless you turn subject/eye detect off, they can't be used to not track over the frame. Sony's method is better...tracking and subject/eye AF aren't tied together. I can have any sized AF area do subject/eye AF confined to looking in the given area OR have it do that and then track over the frame. Or I can turn off eye detect and have it do tracking of an object over the frame.
And yet, even according to you, the only subject for which one is likely to notice a material difference in the rate of in-focus photos is swallows. So…what exactly are we even talking about here? How one system is very slightly easier to attain a 90% keeper rate of in-flight buffleheads?
I'm just talking about ease of use and ultimate control over the camera. As I've mentioned before, my decision to use an A1 over a Z9 as my daily driver has little to do with the actual AF abilities. It is more because of the ease of use, flexibility and control I have with Sony's system. What I was talking about above is mostly just that. It makes my life easier and more predictable and lets me do things how I want to. Other systems force me to do things I'd prefer not to if I didn't have to.
Great, for the 50th time, we’ve established that the A1 is slightly more customizable and works slightly better, but neither of those will result in a material difference in output. Glad we could clear that up…for the 50th time.
For landscapes - correct.
What a fun, pithy comment. You’ve really shown your work with this one, and your contention is definitely not belied by all available evidence and contradicted by everyone who has used both systems. Seriously, besides swallows, for which the veracity of your statement is already questionable, name a subject that will the materially change the output when using an A1 instead of a Z9/Z8.
Re: Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera!
duncang wrote: groob wrote:
arbitrage wrote: groob wrote:
arbitrage wrote: dcisive wrote:
The way I interpret Jan's video was while he initially had issues with losing a bird when near brush or water, when he got smart and adjusted to a Custom box that was smaller and rectangular, it eliminated his issue altogether which he also was very clear about, stating it was the best performance he'd seen to date. So he learned that the Z8 (like the Z9) was not designed to be an "auto pilot" mentality when shooting, but rather giving the user the full flexibility to dial it in for each specific shooting scenario. Professionals tend to want that, and that is the audience Nikon has sought all these years. And they are nailing it. Canon and Sony are for autopilot folks. I have an A7RV currently awaiting a Z8 and while missing focus is NOT my issue with the Sony due to it's advanced AI tech, there are other aspects of the Z8 I am very curious to experience.
I'd prefer the camera that is good in autopilot AND has full flexibility to dial it in. There is one brand out there that has the best autopilot (ie stick it in full sensor AF without tracking and it will nail almost anything moving) AND it also has the most flexibility in how you can use its 7 AF modes because all 7 can either be used restricted to their individual areas OR combined with tracking so you can target a subject or specific part of a subject with a small point and then have it track frame wide. You are experienced in that system so you've tasted the good stuff. When you experience that Z8 you won't feel like you have more flexibility...you will feel the exact opposite.
Now Nikon's system is nice that you can customize the size of the Wide Area box...that was a powerful addition to the system. What Nikon should add now is an option where those AF modes can be setup to either work as they do now OR to initiate within and then track throughout. Nikon only has this option in 3D mode but that uses such a small box that it is very hard to target fast subjects. AutoAF works if backgrounds are far away and OOF but unfortunately Z AutoAF does not share the uncanny ability of F-mount DLSR Auto AF which could basically do what Sony Wide can do...ie....autopilot mode
Canon sort of went two steps forward, one step back when they changed the AF mode behavior in the R3 and onwards compared to the R5. Now the AF modes do track over the frame after initializing with the selected AF area but unless you turn subject/eye detect off, they can't be used to not track over the frame. Sony's method is better...tracking and subject/eye AF aren't tied together. I can have any sized AF area do subject/eye AF confined to looking in the given area OR have it do that and then track over the frame. Or I can turn off eye detect and have it do tracking of an object over the frame.
And yet, even according to you, the only subject for which one is likely to notice a material difference in the rate of in-focus photos is swallows. So…what exactly are we even talking about here? How one system is very slightly easier to attain a 90% keeper rate of in-flight buffleheads?
I'm just talking about ease of use and ultimate control over the camera. As I've mentioned before, my decision to use an A1 over a Z9 as my daily driver has little to do with the actual AF abilities. It is more because of the ease of use, flexibility and control I have with Sony's system. What I was talking about above is mostly just that. It makes my life easier and more predictable and lets me do things how I want to. Other systems force me to do things I'd prefer not to if I didn't have to.
Great, for the 50th time, we’ve established that the A1 is slightly more customizable and works slightly better, but neither of those will result in a material difference in output. Glad we could clear that up…for the 50th time.
For landscapes - correct.
What a fun, pithy comment. You’ve really shown your work with this one, and your contention is definitely not belied by all available evidence and contradicted by everyone who has used both systems. Seriously, besides swallows, which is questionable, name a subject for which the output will be materially different using an A1 instead of a 9
Z9/Z8.
May 30, 2023 at 06:36 AM
Previous versions of groob's message #16257641 « Nikon unveils the highly anticipated Z8 camera! »
