Al Goldis wrote: gdanmitchell wrote:
One thing that perplexes me about. some of the R1 talk is that traditionally the "1" designation (at least since the demise of the 1-Ds cameras) has been for a lower MP body that is designed for ruggedness and speed of operation... not one designed for a very high sensor resolution.
I have wondered if the R3 was originally intended to be the "R1" until Canon saw Sony's A1 and said wait a minute... new plan.
If so, I think that also gave them the opportunity to overprice the R3 while they develop the R1.
Also, to point out the obvious, the 1DX is the point where Canon dropped the high resolution 1Ds and moved the high-res sensor to the 5 line.
Interesting thought about the R3. If they are "overpricing" the R3 right now, I wonder what would happen to the R3 with the introduction of a R1? (Again, I'm not aware of a case where Canon has lowered the list price of a camera during the regular part of its life cycle.
We're on the same page about the coordination with the introduction and success of the 5D line. I interpret it as the 1DsIII being the point where they gave in and no longer put the higher density sensor in the 1-series. But from a slightly different perspective, it was the 1Dx that (finally!) marked their clear commitment to making the 5-series the high-res cameras and the 1-series that beefy, performance cameras.
I had to go back and look at the actual timeline for the introduction of these cameras. There was a lot that I had forgotten about specific models and timing:
2002 1Ds (11MP+)
20041Ds II (16MP)
2005 5D (12MP)
20071DsIII (21MP)
2008 5DII(21MP)
2012 1Dx (18MP)
2012 5DIII (22MP)
2015 5Ds/5DsR ( 50MP)
2016 1DxII (20MP)
2016 5DIV (30MP)
2020 1DxIII (20MP)
So, it looks like the 1Ds models tended to come out one year before the 5D models early on, though later they seemed to come out in the same calendar years.
The 16MP 1DsII was close to contemporaneous with the 12MP 5D.
The 21MP 1DsIII came just before the 21MP 5DII.
Then the 1D drought occurred and it wasn't until 2012 that the 1Dx was introduced with 18MP. I remember two things about that time. A lot of people wondered if Cannon would ever get around to updating the 1D-series, and when they did come out with the 1Dx they marketed it as a camera that did what both of the previous forks (1D and 1Ds) did in a single camera — high resolution and speed. But the reality didn't match that claim, as lots of us noted at the time. That was pure marketing-speak, and a way to attempt to address the questions about what happened to the 1Ds models.
The 1DsII had higher resolution than the roughly contemporary 5D
The 1DsIII had the same resolution as the roughly contemporary 5DII
The 1Dx had lower resolution than the 1DsIII and the 5DII/III. From this point on, the 1-series bodies always had lower resolution.
The highest resolution camera (5Ds/5DsR) never had anything close to a near analog in the 1-series. The 5DIV got 30MP.
The 1DxIII only marginally increased resolution.
So I think it was likely during the 1DsIII and 5DII era when the writing was on the wall about super-expensive high resolution bodies — most (though likely not all) buyers looking for such a camera felt that the 5-series cameras did what they wanted and at a lower price point.
So, in a sense, the R1 question _might_ be whether it is a camera that tries to bring buyers of high resolution cameras back into the 1-series fold or if it is a logical extension of the 1Dx into the mirrorless domain. I'm betting on the latter.
Al Goldis wrote: gdanmitchell wrote:
One thing that perplexes me about. some of the R1 talk is that traditionally the "1" designation (at least since the demise of the 1-Ds cameras) has been for a lower MP body that is designed for ruggedness and speed of operation... not one designed for a very high sensor resolution.
I have wondered if the R3 was originally intended to be the "R1" until Canon saw Sony's A1 and said wait a minute... new plan.
If so, I think that also gave them the opportunity to overprice the R3 while they develop the R1.
Also, to point out the obvious, the 1DX is the point where Canon dropped the high resolution 1Ds and moved the high-res sensor to the 5 line.
Interesting thought about the R3. If they are "overpricing" the R3 right now, I wonder what would happen to the R3 with the introduction of a R1? (Again, I'm not aware of a case where Canon has lowered the list price of a camera during the regular part of its life cycle.
We're on the same page about the coordination with the introduction and success of the 5D line. I had to go back and look at the actual timeline for the introduction of these cameras. There was a lot that I had forgotten about specific models and timing:
2002 1Ds (11MP+)
20041Ds II (16MP)
2005 5D (12MP)
20071DsIII (21MP)
2008 5DII(21MP)
2012 1Dx (18MP)
2012 5DIII (22MP)
2015 5Ds/5DsR ( 50MP)
2016 1DxII (20MP)
2016 5DIV (30MP)
2020 1DxIII (20MP)
So, it looks like the 1Ds models tended to come out one year before the 5D models early on, though later they seemed to come out in the same calendar years.
The 16MP 1DsII was close to contemporaneous with the 12MP 5D.
The 21MP 1DsIII came just before the 21MP 5DII.
Then the 1D drought occurred and it wasn't until 2012 that the 1Dx was introduced with 18MP. I remember two things about that time. A lot of people wondered if Cannon would ever get around to updating the 1D-series, and when they did come out with the 1Dx they marketed it as a camera that did what both of the previous forks (1D and 1Ds) did in a single camera — high resolution and speed. But the reality didn't match that claim, as lots of us noted at the time. That was pure marketing-speak, and a way to attempt to address the questions about what happened to the 1Ds models.
The 1DsII had higher resolution than the roughly contemporary 5D
The 1DsIII had the same resolution as the roughly contemporary 5DII
The 1Dx had lower resolution than the 1DsIII and the 5DII/III. From this point on, the 1-series bodies always had lower resolution.
The highest resolution camera (5Ds/5DsR) never had anything close to a near analog in the 1-series. The 5DIV got 30MP.
The 1DxIII only marginally increased resolution.
So I think it was likely during the 1DsIII and 5DII era when the writing was on the wall about super-expensive high resolution bodies — most (though likely not all) buyers looking for such a camera felt that the 5-series cameras did what they wanted and at a lower price point.
So, in a sense, the R1 question _might_ be whether it is a camera that tries to bring buyers of high resolution cameras back into the 1-series fold or if it is a logical extension of the 1Dx into the mirrorless domain. I'm betting on the latter.
Al Goldis wrote: gdanmitchell wrote:
One thing that perplexes me about. some of the R1 talk is that traditionally the "1" designation (at least since the demise of the 1-Ds cameras) has been for a lower MP body that is designed for ruggedness and speed of operation... not one designed for a very high sensor resolution.
I have wondered if the R3 was originally intended to be the "R1" until Canon saw Sony's A1 and said wait a minute... new plan.
If so, I think that also gave them the opportunity to overprice the R3 while they develop the R1.
Also, to point out the obvious, the 1DX is the point where Canon dropped the high resolution 1Ds and moved the high-res sensor to the 5 line.
Interesting thought about the R3. If they are "overpricing" the R3 right now, I wonder what would happen to the R3 with the introduction of a R1? (Again, I'm not aware of a case where Canon has lowered the list price of a camera during the regular part of its life cycle.
We're on the same page about the coordination with the introduction and success of the 5D line. I had to go back and look at the actual timeline for the introduction of these cameras. There was a lot that I had forgotten about specific models and timing:
2002 1Ds (11MP+)
20041Ds II (16MP)
2005 5D (12MP)
20071DsIII (21MP)
2008 5DII(21MP)
2012 1Dx (18MP)
2012 5DIII (22MP)
2015 5Ds/5DsR ( 50MP)
2016 1DxII (20MP)
2016 5DIV (30MP)
2020 1DxIII (20MP)
So, it looks like the 1Ds models tended to come out one year before the 5D models early on, though later they seemed to come out in the same calendar years.
The 16MP 1DsII was close to contemporaneous with the 12MP 5D.
The 21MP 1DsIII came just before the 21MP 5DII.
Then the 1D drought occurred and it wasn't until 2012 that the 1Dx was introduced with 18MP. I remember two things about that time. A lot of people wondered if Cannon would ever get around to updating the 1D-series, and when they did come out with the 1Dx they marketed it as a camera that did what both of the previous forks (1D and 1Ds) did in a single camera — high resolution and speed. But the reality didn't match that claim, as lots of us noted at the time.
The 1DsII had higher resolution than the roughly contemporary 5D
The 1DsIII had the same resolution as the roughly contemporary 5DII
The 1Dx had lower resolution than the 1DsIII and the 5DII/III. From this point on, the 1-series bodies always had lower resolution.
The highest resolution camera (5Ds/5DsR) never had anything close to a near analog in the 1-series. The 5DIV got 30MP.
The 1DxIII only marginally increased resolution.
So I think it was likely during the 1DsIII and 5DII era when the writing was on the wall about super-expensive high resolution bodies — most (though likely not all) buyers looking for such a camera felt that the 5-series cameras did what they wanted and at a lower price point.
So, in a sense, the R1 question _might_ be whether it is a camera that tries to bring buyers of high resolution cameras back into the 1-series fold or if it is a logical extension of the 1Dx into the mirrorless domain. I'm betting on the latter.
