Fred Miranda wrote: HelBen85 wrote:
Most of the Zeiss Loxia 21mm lenses seem to have their infinity stop too early. This is something that many reviewers do not notice because they do not test the lenses in suitable, even very distant sceneries that can show these problems.
My third Voigtlander is now superior to my Zeiss, actually over the whole frame (at least 90 percent of it) from f2.8 to f8.
As with the Loxia, there seem to be significant differences between the various copies.
There is field curvature to take in consideration though.
All copies of the loxia 21/2.8 I've tried, had the extreme corners perfectly focused when using the lens' infinity hard stop while the center plane of focus is achieved a tad before the hard stop.
Optimal sharpness at infinity can only be achieved 'between' these two focus positions and by stopping the lens down to allow depth of field to mask field curvature.
In the case of the Voigtlander 21/1.4, the field curvature is towards the mid-field instead.
Frankly, I see it differently.
If I remember correctly, I had 3 Loxias 21mm lenses at home and in use around the world for over 3 years.
I also tested 2 more at the store where I bought the Loxia.
All 5 lenses had the same problem, in different forms, they had clearly (!) visible blurring in a more or less large part of the photo, regardless of the focus and aperture. I got the same result with all my Sony Cameras in this period (A7II/A7RII/A7III/A7RIII).
For all 5 lenses, it was best to get an evenly sharp image if you held the focus ring at infinity, exactly at the hard stop, not only 1mm before, hold it at hard stop.
The best of the 5 Loxia lenses was by far the one I received directly from Zeiss after my complaint.
All Loxia 21mm lenses had the following problem:
They had one clearly visible area of blur (compared to the very sharp remaining part of the picture). That blur area was NEVER in the 4 corners of the picture. There the lenses were always very sharp.
The blurring was in the upper third and depending on the respective lens either half left or half right (never both), not in the corners but slightly before, roughly between what you call "midfield" and the corners.
You can only see these blurs if you have no or very little sky in the picture. A test scenario is only suitable if the subject (ideally nature / mountains, because of the finer structures than the ones of buildings) is equally very far away.
These blurs were (somewhat) less if I focused directly on infinity (on the hard stop) and stopped down. But they never completely disappeared. They remained clearly visible.
All reviewers I know use unsuitable scenarios to recognize this. Either the subjects are too close or there is too much sky in the picture.
I test my lenses from a tower and make test shots without having any sky in the shots to be able to check the uniform sharpness.
Maybe I was unlucky 5 times or the reviewers missed something. I think the latter.
I often see problems that others don't see, for example with the popular 24mm GM. However, I no longer feel like arguing with strangers over the internet just because they cannot/ do not notice this.
I have several hundred pictures (travel photography and test shots) that show this blurring, but I don't make my money with reviews and I don't care whether people believe me on the internet or not.
I think it is sufficient and fair of me to give such hints to the professional reviewers. It is the same with the focal length. I am very surprised that no reviewer seem to notice that the Loxia is significantly more wide angle. But I see no need to prove it. It is obvious…
Anyway, I solved the problem for myself. My current Voigtlander 21mm Nokton is better / more evenly sharp, and that with all apertures that both lenses share (from f2.8 on).
The Loxia is a fantastic lens. Small, light and very sharp, plus the great Zeiss colors and is able to create very vivid/three-dimensional Pictures.It was my most used lens for over 3 years.
But it annoyed me that I could see this blur in many landscape shots and there was no way to prevent it.
Fred Miranda wrote: HelBen85 wrote:
Most of the Zeiss Loxia 21mm lenses seem to have their infinity stop too early. This is something that many reviewers do not notice because they do not test the lenses in suitable, even very distant sceneries that can show these problems.
My third Voigtlander is now superior to my Zeiss, actually over the whole frame (at least 90 percent of it) from f2.8 to f8.
As with the Loxia, there seem to be significant differences between the various copies.
There is field curvature to take in consideration though.
All copies of the loxia 21/2.8 I've tried, had the extreme corners perfectly focused when using the lens' infinity hard stop while the center plane of focus is achieved a tad before the hard stop.
Optimal sharpness at infinity can only be achieved 'between' these two focus positions and by stopping the lens down to allow depth of field to mask field curvature.
In the case of the Voigtlander 21/1.4, the field curvature is towards the mid-field instead.
Frankly, I see it differently.
If I remember correctly, I had 3 Loxias 21mm lenses at home and in use around the world for over 3 years.
I also tested 2 more at the store where I bought the Loxia.
All 5 lenses had the same problem, in different forms, they had clearly (!) visible blurring in a more or less large part of the photo, regardless of the focus and aperture. I got the same result with all my Sony Cameras in this period (A7II/A7RII/A7III/A7RIII).
For all 5 lenses, it was best to get an evenly sharp image if you held the focus ring at infinity, exactly at the hard stop, not only 1mm before, hold it at hard stop.
The best of the 5 Loxia lenses was by far the one I received directly from Zeiss after my complaint.
All Loxia 21mm lenses had the following problem:
They had one clearly visible area of blur (compared to the very sharp remaining part of the picture). That blur area was NEVER in the 4 corners of the picture. There the lenses were always very sharp.
The blurring was in the upper third and depending on the respective lens either half left or half right (never both), not in the corners but slightly before, roughly between what you call "midfield" and the corners.
You can only see these blurs if you have no or very little sky in the picture. A test scenario is only suitable if the subject (ideally nature / mountains, because of the finer structures than the ones of buildings) is equally very far away.
These blurs were (somewhat) less if I focused directly on infinity (on the hard stop) and stopped down. But they never completely disappeared. They remained clearly visible.
All reviewers I know use unsuitable scenarios to recognize this. Either the subjects are too close or there is too much sky in the picture.
I test my lenses from a tower and make test shots without having any sky in the shots to be able to check the uniform sharpness.
Maybe I was unlucky 5 times or the reviewers missed something. I think the latter.
I often see problems that others don't see, for example with the popular 24mm GM. However, I no longer feel like arguing with strangers over the internet just because they cannot/ do not notice this.
I have several hundred pictures (travel photography and test shots) that show this blurring, but I don't make my money with reviews and I don't care whether people believe me on the internet or not.
I think it is sufficient and fair of me to give such hints to the professional reviewers. It is the same with the focal length. I am very surprised that no reviewer seem to notice that the Loxia is significantly more wide angle. But I see no need to prove it. It is obvious…
Anyway, I solved the problem for myself. My current Voigtlander 21mm Nokton is better / more evenly sharp, and that with all apertures that both lenses share (from f2.8 on).
The Loxia is a fantastic lens. Small, light and very sharp, plus the great Zeiss colors and is able to create very vivid/three-dimensional Pictures.It was my most used lens for over 3 years.
But it annoyed me that I could see this blur in many landscape shots and there was no way to prevent it.
Fred Miranda wrote: HelBen85 wrote:
Most of the Zeiss Loxia 21mm lenses seem to have their infinity stop too early. This is something that many reviewers do not notice because they do not test the lenses in suitable, even very distant sceneries that can show these problems.
My third Voigtlander is now superior to my Zeiss, actually over the whole frame (at least 90 percent of it) from f2.8 to f8.
As with the Loxia, there seem to be significant differences between the various copies.
There is field curvature to take in consideration though.
All copies of the loxia 21/2.8 I've tried, had the extreme corners perfectly focused when using the lens' infinity hard stop while the center plane of focus is achieved a tad before the hard stop.
Optimal sharpness at infinity can only be achieved 'between' these two focus positions and by stopping the lens down to allow depth of field to mask field curvature.
In the case of the Voigtlander 21/1.4, the field curvature is towards the mid-field instead.
Frankly, I see it differently.
If I remember correctly, I had 3 Loxias 21mm lenses at home and in use around the world for over 3 years.
I also tested 2 more at the store where I bought the Loxia.
All 5 lenses had the same problem, in different forms, they had clearly (!) visible blurring in a more or less large part of the photo, regardless of the focus and aperture. I got the same result with all my Sony Cameras in this period (A7II/A7RII/A7III/A7RIII).
For all 5 lenses, it was best to get an evenly sharp image if you held the focus ring at infinity, exactly at the hard stop, not only 1mm before, hold it at hard stop.
The best of the 5 Loxia lenses was by far the one I received directly from Zeiss after my complaint.
All Loxia 21mm lenses had the following problem:
They had one clearly visible area of blur (compared to the very sharp remaining part of the picture). That blur area was NEVER in the 4 corners of the picture. There the lenses were always very sharp.
The blurring was in the upper third and depending on the respective lens either half left or half right (never both), not in the corners but slightly before, roughly between what you call "midfield" and the corners.
You can only see these blurs if you have no or very little sky in the picture. A test scenario is only suitable if the subject (ideally nature / mountains, because of the finer structures than the ones of buildings) is equally very far away.
These blurs were (somewhat) less if I focused directly on infinity (on the hard stop) and stopped down. But they never completely disappeared. They remained clearly visible.
All reviewers I know use unsuitable scenarios to recognize this. Either the subjects are too close or there is too much sky in the picture.
I test my lenses from a tower to be able to check the uniform sharpness.
Maybe I was unlucky 5 times or the reviewers missed something. I think the latter.
I often see problems that others don't see, for example with the popular 24mm GM. However, I no longer feel like arguing with strangers over the internet just because they cannot/ do not notice this.
I have several hundred pictures (travel photography and test shots) that show this blurring, but I don't make my money with reviews and I don't care whether people believe me on the internet or not.
I think it is sufficient and fair of me to give such hints to the professional reviewers. It is the same with the focal length. I am very surprised that no reviewer seem to notice that the Loxia is significantly more wide angle. But I see no need to prove it. It is obvious…
Anyway, I solved the problem for myself. My current Voigtlander 21mm Nokton is better / more evenly sharp, and that with all apertures that both lenses share (from f2.8 on).
The Loxia is a fantastic lens. Small, light and very sharp, plus the great Zeiss colors and is able to create very vivid/three-dimensional Pictures.It was my most used lens for over 3 years.
But it annoyed me that I could see this blur in many landscape shots and there was no way to prevent it.
