AF-S NIKKOR 120-300mm f/2.8E FL ED SR VR is coming
arbitrage wrote: ilkka_nissila wrote: arbitrage wrote:
I totally missed the weight of this thing...7.2lbs...WTF?....I can buy a 600/4 or 400/2.8 that weighs almost a pound less....
How do you take 120mm, 200mm or 300mm focal length shots with the 600/4 or 400/2.8? By stitching?
If you look at past high-end zooms, they are always heavier than primes with equivalent aperture and maximum focal length.
For example,
Canon 200-400/4 weights 3620g, the 400/4 weights 2100 g (yes, I'm aware the latter is DO but the manufacturer is free to use whatever optical design works best for each lens).
I agree that a zoom going to the same end focal length and front element is going to be heavier than the same prime. I still expected a brand new lens in 2020 to be lighter than a lens with almost 50% larger front element though.
If that is the best they could do then that is the best they could do. For me though the weight is a big turnoff for a 300mm lens in an age of much lighter super telephoto lenses.
Of course we haven't seen any 300 f/2.8 prime made since 2011 design by Canon so we really have nothing to compare that focal length to.
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ilkka_nissila wrote:
Well, it contains 25 elements whereas the current Nikon 300/2.8 prime has 11 elements. Those elements and mechanics that move them weigh something, even with FL elements being lighter than glass. I hope Nikon will release an FL 300mm f/2.8 prime some time in the near future. But I guess this zoom puts that off by a few years.
Nikon do have a lightweight 300mm f/4 lens as you know, and that is what I have. The PF 300/4 however doesn't quite have the contrast and "pop" of the 300/2.8 especially when shot in backlit conditions.
For me the weight is not as big a turnoff as the cost of the new lens. I can handle a 3.25kg lens, though I would not handle something much heavier than that with pleasure.
As Thom is pointing out with the D780, not cameras, but Nikon needs to persuade new users to buy their latest and greatest lenses, and/or persuade upgraders to buy new. The spec and price of this 120-300 will have a few staying with a 70-200 f2.8E FL + TC14 III. This combo will suffice for many of us,especially at shorter subject distances (or a 70-300 AFP FX). A more direct comparison of how to sell more telephotos new is the excellent, versatile 300 f2.8G VR II that weighs a hefty 2.9kg. It's a lens of its era, sure but remains a great investment even today. A FL E upgrade - all the better with SR glass - at a similar price of £5000 would likely sell in healthy numbers, especially if it works as well with TCs as the G model. And pointless to argue that ARNEO + a single SR element justifies £9000 even if it is a zoom.
And they could feasibly get out a 300 f2.8E FL SR weighing well under 2.5kg more like close to 2kg. Canon has pruned down the weight of their latest & fast 400 f2.8 and 600 f4 to 2.84kg (163 x 343mm) and 3.05 kg respectively. The industry trend is for lighter telephotos for air travel and allied uses. Weight is a massive factor to pack a 600 f4 + 120-300 f2.8 with all the other gear - whether to sports events or safari, and especially on smaller planes, and packed on the skeleton of a matured/aging hominid ;-)
....Certainly, optical acuity is the one uppermost factor of a top tier telephoto, but Nikon nailed this fair & square with the G models of their exotics, with less mass in the primes. But oh no not Nikon.... perhaps less with the 180-400 f4 but full on with the flagship 120-300 f2.8 stays in low-range and reverses into the 1990s.
One of Nikon's most successful lenses - in many respects a "Sigma blocker" - is the 200-500 f5.6E.
19 elements in 12 groups (including 3 ED elements). It weighs 2.3kg @ 108 mm dia by 267.5mm - 2kg with no tripod collar. Many owners can handhold this lens for enough time to grab more than burst - and it's priced < £1000. As importantly, I've heard of no reported problems with the build of this "consumer" telephoto zoom, and many do much time in tropical Africa.
If Nikon had pitched a 100-300 f2.8E FL SR ... the new lens coatings et al.... at £5000 then this would persuade upgraders and new owners. But this zoom needs even more innovation to sell i.e. using similar innovations to Canon (also Sony) to trim off at least 1 pound in weight - better 1.5 Ibs to ~2.6kg. And let's not forget the means to use the rear internal CPL. The more options the better, as the market to attract to be widened with a suite of attractive features. Even if some features are unneeded in some's photographer's comfort zone.
Re: AF-S NIKKOR 120-300mm f/2.8E FL ED SR VR is coming
arbitrage wrote: ilkka_nissila wrote: arbitrage wrote:
I totally missed the weight of this thing...7.2lbs...WTF?....I can buy a 600/4 or 400/2.8 that weighs almost a pound less....
How do you take 120mm, 200mm or 300mm focal length shots with the 600/4 or 400/2.8? By stitching?
If you look at past high-end zooms, they are always heavier than primes with equivalent aperture and maximum focal length.
For example,
Canon 200-400/4 weights 3620g, the 400/4 weights 2100 g (yes, I'm aware the latter is DO but the manufacturer is free to use whatever optical design works best for each lens).
I agree that a zoom going to the same end focal length and front element is going to be heavier than the same prime. I still expected a brand new lens in 2020 to be lighter than a lens with almost 50% larger front element though.
If that is the best they could do then that is the best they could do. For me though the weight is a big turnoff for a 300mm lens in an age of much lighter super telephoto lenses.
Of course we haven't seen any 300 f/2.8 prime made since 2011 design by Canon so we really have nothing to compare that focal length to.
---------------------------------------------
ilkka_nissila wrote:
Well, it contains 25 elements whereas the current Nikon 300/2.8 prime has 11 elements. Those elements and mechanics that move them weigh something, even with FL elements being lighter than glass. I hope Nikon will release an FL 300mm f/2.8 prime some time in the near future. But I guess this zoom puts that off by a few years.
Nikon do have a lightweight 300mm f/4 lens as you know, and that is what I have. The PF 300/4 however doesn't quite have the contrast and "pop" of the 300/2.8 especially when shot in backlit conditions.
For me the weight is not as big a turnoff as the cost of the new lens. I can handle a 3.25kg lens, though I would not handle something much heavier than that with pleasure.
As Thom is pointing out with the D780, together with cameras, Nikon needs to persuade new users to buy their lenses, and/or persuade upgraders to buy new. A 70-200 f2.8E FL + TC14 III will suffice for many of us,especially at shorter subject distances (or a 70-300 AFP FX). A more direct comparison is the excellent, versatile 300 f2.8G VR II that weighs a hefty 2.9kg. It's a lens of its era, sure but remains a great investment even today. A FL E upgrade - even better with SR glass - at a similar price of £5000 would likely sell, especially if it works as well with TCs as the G model. And pointless to argue that ARNEO + a single SR element justifies £9000 even if it is a zoom.
And they could feasibly get out a 300 f2.8E FL SR weighing well under 2.5kg more like close to 2kg. Canon has pruned down the weight of their latest & fast 400 f2.8 and 600 f4 to 2.84kg (163 x 343mm) and 3.05 kg respectively. The industry trend is for lighter telephotos for air travel and allied uses. Weight is a massive factor to pack a 600 f4 + 120-300 f2.8 with all the other gear - whether to sports events or safari, and especially on smaller planes, and packed on the skeleton of a maturing/aging hominid ;-)
....Certainly, optical acuity is the one uppermost factor of a top tier telephoto, but Nikon nailed this fair & square with the G models of their exotics, with less mass in the primes. But oh no not Nikon.... perhaps less with the 180-400 f4 but full on with the flagship 120-300 f2.8 stays in low-range and reverses into the 1990s.
One of Nikon's most successful lenses - in many respects a "Sigma blocker" - is the 200-500 f5.6E.
19 elements in 12 groups (including 3 ED elements). It weighs 2.3kg @ 108 mm dia by 267.5mm - 2kg with no tripod collar. Many owners can handhold this lens for enough time and it's priced < £1000. As importantly, I've heard of no reported problems with the build of this "consumer" telephoto zoom, and many do much time in tropical Africa.
If Nikon had pitched a 100-300 f2.8E FL SR ... the new lens coatings et al.... at £5000 then this would persuade upgraders and new owners. But this zoom needs even more innovation to sell i.e. using similar innovations to Canon (also Sony) to trim off at least 1 pound in weight - better 1.5 Ibs to ~2.6kg. And let's not forget the means to use the rear internal CPL. The more options the better, as the market to attract to be widened with a suite of attractive features. Even if some features are unneeded in some's photographer's comfort zone.
Jan 08, 2020 at 10:08 AM
Previous versions of chambeshi's message #15102511 « AF-S NIKKOR 120-300mm f/2.8E FL ED SR VR is coming »
