JohnSil wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote:
What is a realistic expectation for the 1DXIII MP and fps? Could they deliver 26MP @ 16fps?
I don't think 16 fps will be useful, the mirror blackout time in DSLR's is a given, typically 45-50 msec on the pro models. At 16 fps the total blackout time is 16 x 50 msec = 800 msec in each second of burst. which means when tracking a subject you and the camera are effectively blind almost 80% of the time! It will just lead to more missed shots or redundant frames. When I had a 1DXII I actually dialed it back to 12 fps...seemed to be enough to capture the "peak of action" moment
the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV or in mirror-less cameras... then it becomes a challenge to maintain true 120fps live feed during burst.
Just when I thought I could believe you, Pixel Perfect, and the other guys who claimed 16fps wasn't possible see below. And I'm happy to hear B&H confirm my first post that started this whole thread might be coming a reality. I guess 16fps is possible, but now we wait to see what the MP count is...this camera is looking to be a screamer.
Read what I said above, I never said is is impossible where did you see that? I said it is not useful because of the mirror blackout. the theoretical limit is 1/ backlit time = 22 fps but you won't be able to see anything in the finder
Are you sure? Are you quoting some established fact, or as you mentioned , just theoretical?
At what point is a propeller moving fast enough that it gives us a blackout? I think the faster that a prop moves the more we see.
The only thing that needs to be blacked out is the sensor. what our eye sees has no correlation to the sensor. At some point the mirror is down allowing a glimpse of a view and it will reflect the view. Very possibly the faster that view is strobed the more we will see. The less chopped up it will seem.
Remember our brain has the ability to fill in the blanks when our eyes can not.
At some point that mirror is down, passing an optical view of the scene, no matter how brief!
I'm not talking any kind of science, just what it seems to me and I might be completely wrong but you've not given me any evidence to the contrary!!?
John
Hi John,
I am not sure what you are asking, the blackout math is simple what part do you not understand?
I have no idea what you mean by "sensor needs to be blacked out". NOTHING needs to be blacked out, but because a mirror is between the sensor and the lens it has to go up so the camera can take a picture. A mirror-less camera has no blackout of this kind.
I think you may not have experience shooting with a 1DXII or a camera like that as much as I have. Your brain (or at least my brain) cannot filter out the blackout periods. When tracking erratic subject such as BIF and hand holding a 600mm-1200mm rig the blackout is visible and becomes very distracting at 14 fps or higher. It makes it difficult to keep the subject centered. As I mentioned when I was shooting with Canon I actually dialed back my 1DXII to 12fps. I saw no benefit in going to 14fps besides more files to delete and the worsened blackout. In live view the high fps may have different applications, I never shoot in LV so I am not familiar with those applications.
JohnSil wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote:
What is a realistic expectation for the 1DXIII MP and fps? Could they deliver 26MP @ 16fps?
I don't think 16 fps will be useful, the mirror blackout time in DSLR's is a given, typically 45-50 msec on the pro models. At 16 fps the total blackout time is 16 x 50 msec = 800 msec in each second of burst. which means when tracking a subject you and the camera are effectively blind almost 80% of the time! It will just lead to more missed shots or redundant frames. When I had a 1DXII I actually dialed it back to 12 fps...seemed to be enough to capture the "peak of action" moment
the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV or in mirror-less cameras... then it becomes a challenge to maintain true 120fps live feed during burst.
Just when I thought I could believe you, Pixel Perfect, and the other guys who claimed 16fps wasn't possible see below. And I'm happy to hear B&H confirm my first post that started this whole thread might be coming a reality. I guess 16fps is possible, but now we wait to see what the MP count is...this camera is looking to be a screamer.
Read what I said above, I never said is is impossible where did you see that? I said it is not useful because of the mirror blackout. the theoretical limit is 1/ backlit time = 22 fps but you won't be able to see anything in the finder
Are you sure? Are you quoting some established fact, or as you mentioned , just theoretical?
At what point is a propeller moving fast enough that it gives us a blackout? I think the faster that a prop moves the more we see.
The only thing that needs to be blacked out is the sensor. what our eye sees has no correlation to the sensor. At some point the mirror is down allowing a glimpse of a view and it will reflect the view. Very possibly the faster that view is strobed the more we will see. The less chopped up it will seem.
Remember our brain has the ability to fill in the blanks when our eyes can not.
At some point that mirror is down, passing an optical view of the scene, no matter how brief!
I'm not talking any kind of science, just what it seems to me and I might be completely wrong but you've not given me any evidence to the contrary!!?
John
Hi John,
I am not sure what you are asking, the blackout math is simple what part do you not understand?
I have no idea what you mean by "sensor needs to be blacked out". NOTHING needs to be blacked out, but because a mirror is between the sensor and the lens it has to go up so the camera can take a picture. A mirror-less camera has no blackout of this kind.
I think you may not have experience shooting with a 1DXII or a camera like that as much as I have. Your brain (or at least my brain) cannot filter out the blackout periods. When tracking erratic subject such as BIF and hand holding a 600mm-1200mm rig the blackout is visible and becomes very distracting at 14 fps or higher. It makes it difficult to keep the subject centered. As I mentioned when I was shooting with Canon I actually dialed back my 1DXII to 12fps. I saw no benefit from going to 14fps
besides more files to delete and the worsened blackout. In live view the high fps may have different applications, I never shoot in LV so I am not familiar with those applications.
JohnSil wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote:
What is a realistic expectation for the 1DXIII MP and fps? Could they deliver 26MP @ 16fps?
I don't think 16 fps will be useful, the mirror blackout time in DSLR's is a given, typically 45-50 msec on the pro models. At 16 fps the total blackout time is 16 x 50 msec = 800 msec in each second of burst. which means when tracking a subject you and the camera are effectively blind almost 80% of the time! It will just lead to more missed shots or redundant frames. When I had a 1DXII I actually dialed it back to 12 fps...seemed to be enough to capture the "peak of action" moment
the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV or in mirror-less cameras... then it becomes a challenge to maintain true 120fps live feed during burst.
Just when I thought I could believe you, Pixel Perfect, and the other guys who claimed 16fps wasn't possible see below. And I'm happy to hear B&H confirm my first post that started this whole thread might be coming a reality. I guess 16fps is possible, but now we wait to see what the MP count is...this camera is looking to be a screamer.
Read what I said above, I never said is is impossible where did you see that? I said it is not useful because of the mirror blackout. the theoretical limit is 1/ backlit time = 22 fps but you won't be able to see anything in the finder
Are you sure? Are you quoting some established fact, or as you mentioned , just theoretical?
At what point is a propeller moving fast enough that it gives us a blackout? I think the faster that a prop moves the more we see.
The only thing that needs to be blacked out is the sensor. what our eye sees has no correlation to the sensor. At some point the mirror is down allowing a glimpse of a view and it will reflect the view. Very possibly the faster that view is strobed the more we will see. The less chopped up it will seem.
Remember our brain has the ability to fill in the blanks when our eyes can not.
At some point that mirror is down, passing an optical view of the scene, no matter how brief!
I'm not talking any kind of science, just what it seems to me and I might be completely wrong but you've not given me any evidence to the contrary!!?
John
Hi John,
I am not sure what you are asking, the blackout math is simple what part do you not understand?
I have no idea what you mean by "sensor needs to be blacked out". NOTHING needs to be blacked out, but because a mirror is between the sensor and the lens it has to go up so the camera can take a picture. A mirror-less camera has no blackout of this kind.
I think you may not have experience shooting with a 1DXII or a camera like that as much as I have. Your brain (or at least my brain) cannot filter out the blackout periods. When tracking erratic subject such as BIF and hand holding a 600mm-1200mm rig the blackout is visible and becomes very distracting at 14 fps. It makes it difficult to keep the subject centered. As I mentioned when I was shooting with Canon I actually dialed back my 1DXII to 12fps. I saw no benefit from going to 14fps besides more files to delete and the worsened blackout. In live view the high fps may have different applications, I never shoot in LV so I am not familiar with those applications.
JohnSil wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote:
What is a realistic expectation for the 1DXIII MP and fps? Could they deliver 26MP @ 16fps?
I don't think 16 fps will be useful, the mirror blackout time in DSLR's is a given, typically 45-50 msec on the pro models. At 16 fps the total blackout time is 16 x 50 msec = 800 msec in each second of burst. which means when tracking a subject you and the camera are effectively blind almost 80% of the time! It will just lead to more missed shots or redundant frames. When I had a 1DXII I actually dialed it back to 12 fps...seemed to be enough to capture the "peak of action" moment
the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV or in mirror-less cameras... then it becomes a challenge to maintain true 120fps live feed during burst.
Just when I thought I could believe you, Pixel Perfect, and the other guys who claimed 16fps wasn't possible see below. And I'm happy to hear B&H confirm my first post that started this whole thread might be coming a reality. I guess 16fps is possible, but now we wait to see what the MP count is...this camera is looking to be a screamer.
Read what I said above, I never said is is impossible where did you see that? I said it is not useful because of the mirror blackout. the theoretical limit is 1/ backlit time = 22 fps but you won't be able to see anything in the finder
Are you sure? Are you quoting some established fact, or as you mentioned , just theoretical?
At what point is a propeller moving fast enough that it gives us a blackout? I think the faster that a prop moves the more we see.
The only thing that needs to be blacked out is the sensor. what our eye sees has no correlation to the sensor. At some point the mirror is down allowing a glimpse of a view and it will reflect the view. Very possibly the faster that view is strobed the more we will see. The less chopped up it will seem.
Remember our brain has the ability to fill in the blanks when our eyes can not.
At some point that mirror is down, passing an optical view of the scene, no matter how brief!
I'm not talking any kind of science, just what it seems to me and I might be completely wrong but you've not given me any evidence to the contrary!!?
John
Hi John,
I am not sure what you are asking, the blackout math is simple what part do you not understand?
I have no idea what you mean by "sensor needs to be blacked out". NOTHING NEEDS to be blacked out, but because a mirror is between the sensor and the lens it has to go up so the camera can take a picture. A mirror-less camera has no blackout of this kind.
I think you may not have experience shooting with a 1DXII or a camera like that as much as I have Your brain (or at least my brain) cannot filter out the blackout periods. When tracking erratic subject such as BIF and hand holding a 600mm-1200mm rig the blackout is visible and becomes very distracting at 14 fps. It makes it difficult to keep the subject centered. As I mentioned when I was shooting with Canon I actually dialed back my 1DXII to 12fps. I saw no benefit from going to 14fps besides more files to delete and had to deal with worsened blackout. In live view the high fps may have different applications, I never shoot in LV so I am not familiar with those applications.
JohnSil wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote: speedmaster20d wrote: artsupreme wrote:
What is a realistic expectation for the 1DXIII MP and fps? Could they deliver 26MP @ 16fps?
I don't think 16 fps will be useful, the mirror blackout time in DSLR's is a given, typically 45-50 msec on the pro models. At 16 fps the total blackout time is 16 x 50 msec = 800 msec in each second of burst. which means when tracking a subject you and the camera are effectively blind almost 80% of the time! It will just lead to more missed shots or redundant frames. When I had a 1DXII I actually dialed it back to 12 fps...seemed to be enough to capture the "peak of action" moment
the only way to go to those high frame rates and still be useful is with the mirror up in LV or in mirror-less cameras... then it becomes a challenge to maintain true 120fps live feed during burst.
Just when I thought I could believe you, Pixel Perfect, and the other guys who claimed 16fps wasn't possible see below. And I'm happy to hear B&H confirm my first post that started this whole thread might be coming a reality. I guess 16fps is possible, but now we wait to see what the MP count is...this camera is looking to be a screamer.
Read what I said above, I never said is is impossible where did you see that? I said it is not useful because of the mirror blackout. the theoretical limit is 1/ backlit time = 22 fps but you won't be able to see anything in the finder
Are you sure? Are you quoting some established fact, or as you mentioned , just theoretical?
At what point is a propeller moving fast enough that it gives us a blackout? I think the faster that a prop moves the more we see.
The only thing that needs to be blacked out is the sensor. what our eye sees has no correlation to the sensor. At some point the mirror is down allowing a glimpse of a view and it will reflect the view. Very possibly the faster that view is strobed the more we will see. The less chopped up it will seem.
Remember our brain has the ability to fill in the blanks when our eyes can not.
At some point that mirror is down, passing an optical view of the scene, no matter how brief!
I'm not talking any kind of science, just what it seems to me and I might be completely wrong but you've not given me any evidence to the contrary!!?
John
Hi John,
I am not sure what you are asking, the blackout math is simple what part do you not understand?
I think you have never shot with a 1DXII or a camera like that Your brain (or at least mine) cannot filter out raw blackout periods. When tracking erratic subject such as BIF and hand holding a 600mm-12000mm rig the blackout becomes extremely distracting at 14 fps making it difficult to keep the subject centered.
hope this helps
Oct 25, 2019 at 10:50 PM
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