sungphoto wrote: charles.K wrote:
Since there are Z7's in the wild I no longer just read limited reviews but from people I know and trust their experiences as photographers. There are many reviews but keep them in their true context. Then there are those that continually review reviews and don't actually own a Z7.
I know quite a few photographers and they are silent have adopted the Z7 and loving it for both personal and professional work. Most who have the Z7 also need the video functionality with IBIS.
The truth is the EOS-R for Canon photographers will also be a great MILC alongside in spite of the banding and other perceived issues. The issue of IBIS seems to be addressed by lenses incorporating vibration reduction in the lens design but of course it just depends on your style of photography.
Personally I love the D850 and will be one of the best FF body for some time. The ergonomics of the D850 with fast lenses is very counter intuitive and feels great with fast lenses yet the Z7 will be wonderful addition alongside. I am seeing amazing video clips where the AF just works flawlessly. The Z7 was never targeted against the D500/D5/D850. The 24-70S is proving to be amazing and if the 35/50S are similar for many photographers this will all that is needed at least for travel.
The banding issue I feel is over blown. FF MILC are prone to PDAF visibility/banding and it will appear under differing extreme conditions. I have pushed RAW shots +5 and +6 and no banding but I am sure it is there under certain conditions. I remember for the Sony's it was big issue when it was mentioned but you do not hear much about it now. Instead you have a lot of color noise for similar EV pushing of RAW files within the shadows. There is no free lunch ! This pre-baked RAW filter may be related to the star eater issues
I suppose it's not the most constructive thing to say, but I still feel like people that routinely have to push shadows by +5 stops to save an image should probably pick up another hobby, and if you're doing it for paid work - you should be ashamed of yourself
I appreciate some landscape photographers who need to push the shadows routinely but I would not expect to be pushing any more than +2 or +3 max +4. If you need to push +5/+6 the image ends up very average at best. It is much better to stack a few shots in these instances.
The amount of banding if it appears at +5/+6 it is very discrete and using a program like Nik Dfine2 readily comes with Nik package and it is only 20 sec in post remove without affecting the detail or DR. It is so effective and you only need to decide whether you have horizontal or vertical banding and just turn off all the noise/color reduction. I have used this program with Canon/Leica/Sony/Fuji previously. Knowing you have this ability allows more flexibility if your want push shadows past the extremes!
My take as I mentioned above is that banding/PDAF lines are unique to MILC and in particular FF and will present under extreme lighting/shadows. Sony has this issue but I suspect it removes this as part of the pre baked processing of RAW's so it is not apparent to the same extent. Instead we see more color noise/less detail but no apparent banding so it appears that is it pre-filtered as a RAW. Nikon may choose to address this via FW but it may be at the expense of detail and color noise. This pre-baked RAW filter may be related to the Sony star eater issues
sungphoto wrote: charles.K wrote:
Since there are Z7's in the wild I no longer just read limited reviews but from people I know and trust their experiences as photographers. There are many reviews but keep them in their true context. Then there are those that continually review reviews and don't actually own a Z7.
I know quite a few photographers and they are silent have adopted the Z7 and loving it for both personal and professional work. Most who have the Z7 also need the video functionality with IBIS.
The truth is the EOS-R for Canon photographers will also be a great MILC alongside in spite of the banding and other perceived issues. The issue of IBIS seems to be addressed by lenses incorporating vibration reduction in the lens design but of course it just depends on your style of photography.
Personally I love the D850 and will be one of the best FF body for some time. The ergonomics of the D850 with fast lenses is very counter intuitive and feels great with fast lenses yet the Z7 will be wonderful addition alongside. I am seeing amazing video clips where the AF just works flawlessly. The Z7 was never targeted against the D500/D5/D850. The 24-70S is proving to be amazing and if the 35/50S are similar for many photographers this will all that is needed at least for travel.
The banding issue I feel is over blown. FF MILC are prone to PDAF visibility/banding and it will appear under differing extreme conditions. I have pushed RAW shots +5 and +6 and no banding but I am sure it is there under certain conditions. I remember for the Sony's it was big issue when it was mentioned but you do not hear much about it now. Instead you have a lot of color noise for similar EV pushing of RAW files within the shadows. There is no free lunch ! This pre-baked RAW filter may be related to the star eater issues
I suppose it's not the most constructive thing to say, but I still feel like people that routinely have to push shadows by +5 stops to save an image should probably pick up another hobby, and if you're doing it for paid work - you should be ashamed of yourself
I appreciate some landscape photographers who need to push the shadows routinely but I would not expect to be pushing any more than +2 or +3 max +4. If you need to push +5/+6 the image ends up very average at best. It is much better to stack a few shots in these instances.
The amount of banding if it appears at +5/+6 it is very discrete and using a program like Nik Dfine2 readily comes with Nik package and it is only 20 sec in post remove without affecting the detail or DR. It is so effective and you only need to decide whether you have horizontal or vertical banding and just turn off all the noise/color reduction. I have used this program with Canon/Leica/Sony/Fuji previously. Knowing you have this ability allows more flexibility if your want push shadows past the extremes!
My take as I mentioned above is that banding/PDAF lines are unique to MILC and in particular FF and will present under extreme lighting/shadows. Sony has this issue but I suspect it removes this as part of the pre baked processing of RAW's so it is not apparent to the same extent. Instead we see more color noise/less detail but no apparent banding so it appears that is it pre-filtered as a RAW. Nikon may choose to address this via FW but it may be at the expense of detail and color noise.
FF MILC are prone to PDAF visibility/banding and it will appear under differing extreme conditions. I have pushed RAW shots +5 and +6 and no banding but I am sure it is there under certain conditions. I remember for the Sony's it was big issue when it was mentioned but you do not hear much about it now. Instead you have a lot of color noise for similar EV pushing of RAW files within the shadows. This pre-baked RAW filter may be related to the star eater issues
sungphoto wrote: charles.K wrote:
Since there are Z7's in the wild I no longer just read limited reviews but from people I know and trust their experiences as photographers. There are many reviews but keep them in their true context. Then there are those that continually review reviews and don't actually own a Z7.
I know quite a few photographers and they are silent have adopted the Z7 and loving it for both personal and professional work. Most who have the Z7 also need the video functionality with IBIS.
The truth is the EOS-R for Canon photographers will also be a great MILC alongside in spite of the banding and other perceived issues. The issue of IBIS seems to be addressed by lenses incorporating vibration reduction in the lens design but of course it just depends on your style of photography.
Personally I love the D850 and will be one of the best FF body for some time. The ergonomics of the D850 with fast lenses is very counter intuitive and feels great with fast lenses yet the Z7 will be wonderful addition alongside. I am seeing amazing video clips where the AF just works flawlessly. The Z7 was never targeted against the D500/D5/D850. The 24-70S is proving to be amazing and if the 35/50S are similar for many photographers this will all that is needed at least for travel.
The banding issue I feel is over blown. FF MILC are prone to PDAF visibility/banding and it will appear under differing extreme conditions. I have pushed RAW shots +5 and +6 and no banding but I am sure it is there under certain conditions. I remember for the Sony's it was big issue when it was mentioned but you do not hear much about it now. Instead you have a lot of color noise for similar EV pushing of RAW files within the shadows. There is no free lunch ! This pre-baked RAW filter may be related to the star eater issues
I suppose it's not the most constructive thing to say, but I still feel like people that routinely have to push shadows by +5 stops to save an image should probably pick up another hobby, and if you're doing it for paid work - you should be ashamed of yourself
I appreciate some landscape photographers who need to push the shadows routinely but I would not expect to be pushing any more than +2 or +3 max +4. If you need to push +5/+6 the image ends up very average at best. It is much better to stack a few shots in these instances.
The amount of banding if it appears at +5/+6 it is very discrete and using a program like Nik Dfine2 readily comes with Nik package and it is only 20 sec in post remove without affecting the detail or DR. It is so effective and you only need to decide whether you have horizontal or vertical banding and just turn off all the noise/color reduction. I have used this program with Canon/Leica/Sony/Fuji previously. Knowing you have this ability allows more flexibility if your want push shadows past the extremes!
My take as I mentioned above is that banding/PDAF lines are unique to MILC and in particular FF and will present under extreme lighting/shadows. Sony has this issue but I suspect it removes this as part of the pre baked processing of RAW's so it is not apparent to the same extent. Instead we see more color noise/less detail but no apparent banding so it appears that is it pre-filtered as a RAW. Nikon may choose to address this via FW but it may be at the expense of detail and color noise.
sungphoto wrote: charles.K wrote:
Since there are Z7's in the wild I no longer just read limited reviews but from people I know and trust their experiences as photographers. There are many reviews but keep them in their true context. Then there are those that continually review reviews and don't actually own a Z7.
I know quite a few photographers and they are silent have adopted the Z7 and loving it for both personal and professional work. Most who have the Z7 also need the video functionality with IBIS.
The truth is the EOS-R for Canon photographers will also be a great MILC alongside in spite of the banding and other perceived issues. The issue of IBIS seems to be addressed by lenses incorporating vibration reduction in the lens design but of course it just depends on your style of photography.
Personally I love the D850 and will be one of the best FF body for some time. The ergonomics of the D850 with fast lenses is very counter intuitive and feels great with fast lenses yet the Z7 will be wonderful addition alongside. I am seeing amazing video clips where the AF just works flawlessly. The Z7 was never targeted against the D500/D5/D850. The 24-70S is proving to be amazing and if the 35/50S are similar for many photographers this will all that is needed at least for travel.
The banding issue I feel is over blown. FF MILC are prone to PDAF visibility/banding and it will appear under differing extreme conditions. I have pushed RAW shots +5 and +6 and no banding but I am sure it is there under certain conditions. I remember for the Sony's it was big issue when it was mentioned but you do not hear much about it now. Instead you have a lot of color noise for similar EV pushing of RAW files within the shadows. There is no free lunch This pre-baked RAW filter may be related to the star eater issues
I suppose it's not the most constructive thing to say, but I still feel like people that routinely have to push shadows by +5 stops to save an image should probably pick up another hobby, and if you're doing it for paid work - you should be ashamed of yourself
I appreciate some landscape photographers who need to push the shadows routinely but I would not expect to be pushing any more than +2 or +3 max +4. If you need to push +5/+6 the image ends up very average at best. It is much better to stack a few shots in these instances.
The amount of banding if it appears at +5/+6 it is very discrete and using a program like Nik Dfine2 readily comes with Nik package and it is only 20 sec in post remove without affecting the detail or DR. It is so effective and you only need to decide whether you have horizontal or vertical banding and just turn off all the noise/color reduction. I have used this program with Canon/Leica/Sony/Fuji previously. Knowing you have this ability allows more flexibility if your want push shadows past the extremes!
My take as I mentioned above is that banding/PDAF lines are unique to MILC and in particular FF and will present under extreme lighting/shadows. Sony has this issue but I suspect it removes this as part of the pre baked processing of RAW's so it is not apparent to the same extent. Instead we see more color noise/less detail but no apparent banding so it appears that is it pre-filtered as a RAW. Nikon may choose to address this via FW but it may be at the expense of detail and color noise.
sungphoto wrote: charles.K wrote:
Since there are Z7's in the wild I no longer just read limited reviews but from people I know and trust their experiences as photographers. There are many reviews but keep them in their true context. Then there are those that continually review reviews and don't actually own a Z7.
I know quite a few photographers and they are silent have adopted the Z7 and loving it for both personal and professional work. Most who have the Z7 also need the video functionality with IBIS.
The truth is the EOS-R for Canon photographers will also be a great MILC alongside in spite of the banding and other perceived issues. The issue of IBIS seems to be addressed by lenses incorporating vibration reduction in the lens design but of course it just depends on your style of photography.
Personally I love the D850 and will be one of the best FF body for some time. The ergonomics of the D850 with fast lenses is very counter intuitive and feels great with fast lenses yet the Z7 will be wonderful addition alongside. I am seeing amazing video clips where the AF just works flawlessly. The Z7 was never targeted against the D500/D5/D850. The 24-70S is proving to be amazing and if the 35/50S are similar for many photographers this will all that is needed at least for travel.
The banding issue I feel is over blown. FF MILC are prone to PDAF visibility/banding and it will appear under differing extreme conditions. I have pushed RAW shots +5 and +6 and no banding but I am sure it is there under certain conditions. I remember for the Sony's it was big issue when it was mentioned but you do not hear much about it now. Instead you have a lot of color noise for similar EV pushing of RAW files within the shadows. There is no free lunch This pre-baked RAW filter may be related to the star eater issues
I suppose it's not the most constructive thing to say, but I still feel like people that routinely have to push shadows by +5 stops to save an image should probably pick up another hobby, and if you're doing it for paid work - you should be ashamed of yourself
I appreciate some landscape photographers who need to push the shadows routinely but I would not expect to be pushing any more than +2 or +3 max +4. If you need to push +5/+6 the image ends up very average at best. It is much better to stack a few shots in these instances.
The amount of banding if it appears at +5/+6 it is very discrete and using a program like Nik Dfine2 readily comes with Nik package and it is only 20 sec in post remove without affecting the detail or DR. It is so effective and you only need to decide whether you have horizontal or vertical banding and just turn off all the noise/color reduction. I have used this program with Canon/Leica/Sony/Fuji previously. Knowing you have this ability allows more flexibility if your want push shadows past the extremes!
My take as I mentioned above is that banding/PDAF lines are unique to MILC and in particular FF and will present under extreme lighting/shadows. Sony has this issue but I suspect it removes this as part of the pre baked processing of RAW's so it is not apparent to the same extent. Instead we see more color noise/less detail but no apparent banding so it appears that is it pre-filtered as a RAW. Nikon may choose to address this via FW but it may be at the expense of detail and color noise.
sungphoto wrote: charles.K wrote:
Since there are Z7's in the wild I no longer just read limited reviews but from people I know and trust their experiences as photographers. There are many reviews but keep them in their true context. Then there are those that continually review reviews and don't actually own a Z7.
I know quite a few photographers and they are silent have adopted the Z7 and loving it for both personal and professional work. Most who have the Z7 also need the video functionality with IBIS.
The truth is the EOS-R for Canon photographers will also be a great MILC alongside in spite of the banding and other perceived issues. The issue of IBIS seems to be addressed by lenses incorporating vibration reduction in the lens design but of course it just depends on your style of photography.
Personally I love the D850 and will be one of the best FF body for some time. The ergonomics of the D850 with fast lenses is very counter intuitive and feels great with fast lenses yet the Z7 will be wonderful addition alongside. I am seeing amazing video clips where the AF just works flawlessly. The Z7 was never targeted against the D500/D5/D850. The 24-70S is proving to be amazing and if the 35/50S are similar for many photographers this will all that is needed at least for travel.
The banding issue I feel is over blown. FF MILC are prone to PDAF visibility/banding and it will appear under differing extreme conditions. I have pushed RAW shots +5 and +6 and no banding but I am sure it is there under certain conditions. I remember for the Sony's it was big issue when it was mentioned but you do not hear much about it now. Instead you have a lot of color noise for similar EV pushing of RAW files within the shadows. There is no free lunch
I suppose it's not the most constructive thing to say, but I still feel like people that routinely have to push shadows by +5 stops to save an image should probably pick up another hobby, and if you're doing it for paid work - you should be ashamed of yourself
I appreciate some landscape photographers who need to push the shadows routinely but I would not expect to be pushing any more than +2 or +3 max +4. If you need to push +5/+6 the image ends up very average at best. It is much better to stack a few shots in these instances.
The amount of banding if it appears at +5/+6 it is very discrete and using a program like Nik Dfine2 readily comes with Nik package and it is only 20 sec in post remove without affecting the detail or DR. It is so effective and you only need to decide whether you have horizontal or vertical banding and just turn off all the noise/color reduction. I have used this program with Canon/Leica/Sony/Fuji previously. Knowing you have this ability allows more flexibility if your want push shadows past the extremes!
My take as I mentioned above is that banding/PDAF lines are unique to MILC and in particular FF and will present under extreme lighting/shadows. Sony has this issue but I suspect it removes this as part of the pre baked processing of RAW's so it is not apparent to the same extent. Instead we see more color noise/less detail but no apparent banding so it appears that is it pre-filtered as a RAW. Nikon may choose to address this via FW but it may be at the expense of detail and color noise.
Oct 03, 2018 at 07:48 PM
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