gdanmitchell
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 Re: Could you go back to film? | |
Steve Spencer wrote:
Dan, this is listed in multiple forums including the Alt forum, so it seems perfectly appropriate to discuss 8 X 10 film on this thread.
Steve: I stand corrected, and I regret that didn't realize it was cross-posted. I(n that case, I guess I wonder why it is in the Canon forum, given that film is generally not a Canon-related topic at this point, and given that there apparently are other places to talk about it? A question for the moderators perhaps.)
The fact that it is cross-posted is, ironically, reassuring to me when it comes to Ben, who I know to be a decent and principled person and quite a good photographer.
TooManyShots wrote:
How many who hates films actually went beyond their lab to process their films 20 years ago+, you have no choice but to shoot films.
I was reflexively going to answer by pointing out that I developed my own film and did my own darkroom printing for years. I did my first darkroom printing as a pre-teen, perhaps 50 years ago.
But then I realized that you weren't asking me, since you pointed your question at those who "hate film." While quite a few are not (or are no longer) interested in using film in our own photography at this point, for a range of reasons, I don't think many in this thread "hate" film. Most of us simply don't use it at this point.
I'm not sure who to suggest if you are looking for people who "hate film" to answer your question. Hmmm...
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Do those of you who are enthusiastic about your use of film today also "hate" digital? If you would not describe your own perspective on the "other medium" that way, is it possible to attribute the different preference of others to something other than "hate?"
To all who still are enthusiastic film users: What percentage of your photography is done using film versus the percentage done using digital? Do you develop your own film? Make your own prints from the film you developed in your own optical chemical darkroom? Compared to how much time you have spent perfecting your skills with optical/chemical photography, how much time have you spent acquiring equivalent skills and experience with digital equivalents?
If you never use any digital photographic technologies, why? If you sometimes do, why?
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The person who wrote the following article knows a bit — to say the least — about the zone system. Perhaps some of you have heard of him? Alan Ross: http://www.alanrossphotography.com/the-zone-system-and-digital-let-your-spot-meter-do-the-work/
The author of this next piece also knows a bit about these things: http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/tips-techniques/nature-landscapes/the-digital-zone-system/. (He and I photograph together regularly this time of year — including yesterday.)
There is a lot more on this subject available by searching or in printed media.
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I have a friend whose background is roughly the same as that of the person who wrote the digital zone piece I linked to above. (If you don't know who Ross is, please take a moment to find out before replying, OK?) He and my friend both worked for some time for a person who had a, uh, "significant role" in the formulation of and use of the zone system.
Because I know a few such people, I'm baffled by the whole "hate" thing when it comes to discussing the relative merits of different technologies for doing photography. My friend and his wife work essentially entirely in the black and white film realm today. They all do very successful joint workshops with another friend who shoots entirely digital these days. (This "other friend" also had a direct connection to that person who, well, basically invented the zone system.)
I've been out do dinner with the group of them (and spent photography time in the Sierra backcountry with them, in larger or smaller doses) and I can happily report that we/they talk about many things, including photography, without any of the personalizing and animosity I see here in a few too many cases. (Not all — thanks, again, for your contribution, Ben.) Prefer film? Sure, and may I pour you another glass? Moving to digital? Thinking about it, and would you like to share a bite of my desert? Scanning your negatives these days? Why yes, and wasn't that great light this afternoon?
We joke about our preconceptions, too. Each of us has a pretty well developed sense of irony. One of the "switchers" points out that the first time he went into the backcountry with digital MF instead of LF film he "saved $3000" in costs for development and scanning. He then said, "I should have made twice as many photos — then I could have saved $6000." (This is part of his schtick were he cops to the costs of the high five-figures cost of the MF back he was using.) One of the film guys likes to rib us about the fact that he makes "real" photographs.
What might explain all of this?
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As to the sources of anger and "hate" in this thread...
... before replying to my post, which I've tried to write in a direct but not insulting fashion, why don't you take a deep breath and (as my mother used to say) "count to 10 before replying." See if you can do so without trying to directly or passive-aggressively disparage the person of me or others who don't quite exactly agree with you.
Finally, how about every one of us challenge ourselves to
a) write about the issue without writing about the motives or intelligence of those who hold a different point of view?
b) write about the issue without inventing positions for the other person so that we have something to argue against?
c) make a habit of acknowledging something (genuinely) admirable about the other point of view?
d) wait before posting — perhaps share with a friend who is close enough to be honest — the angry post before hitting the submit button here?
e) acknowledge (and occasionally apologize) when we got it wrong. As I did — and I regret my error — when I failed to realize that this topic was cross-posted outside of the thread where I read it.
Here is an example, in which I recall my own early and wonderful experience with film and explain why I've left it behind as I did other things that belonged to that era:
"I used film for decades. I started early and experienced the romance of watching that first print come up in the tray. I also enjoyed small black and white televisions, transistor radios, cars with fins, and TV dinners."
"I have no interest whatsoever in "going back to film" today."
"The subject seems like one that would be more appropriate in a different forum — it doesn't have anything specific to do with Canon equipment."
And, my apology in advance for anything I wrote that actually be misread as a personal "attack." (Use of gently irony excepted, of course, and give me a little slack for reading this in the Canon forum and not knowing it was also in the alt forum.)
Take care,
Dan
To end on a lighter note, here's a photograph of a happy band of photographers, made at a remote Sierra Nevada backcountry location a few years back where we spent a week making photographs — using everything from MFT through crop and FF and MF digital to MF film and more. Oh, and banjos.
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