artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary...
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses... If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras....
and
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) versus the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(Rendering this entire point largely moot, you seem to have missed that I also wrote a few words later in the same sentence, \"or to augment Canon lenses...\")
And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary...
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses... If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras....
and
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) versus the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(Rendering this entire point largely moot, you seem to have missed that I also wrote a few words later in the same sentence, \"or to augment Canon lenses...\")
And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary...
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses... If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras....
and
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) versus the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(Rendering this entire point largely moot, you seem to have missed that I also wrote, in the same sentence, \"or to augment Canon lenses...\")
And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary...
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses... If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras....
and
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(i.e. - you seem to have ignored that I also wrote, in the same sentence, \"or to augment Canon lenses...\")
And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary...
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses... If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras....
and
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(i.e. - you seem to have ignored that I also wrote, in the same sentence, \"or to augment Canon lenses...\")
And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary...
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses... If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras....
and
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(i.e. - you seem to have ignored that I also wrote, in the same sentence, \"or to augment Canon lenses...\")
And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary...
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses... If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras....
and
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(i.e. - you seem to have ignored that I also wrote, in the same sentence, \"or to augment Canon lenses...\")
And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
On another topic...
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary...
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras....
and
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(i.e. - you seem to have ignored that I also wrote, in the same sentence, \"or to augment Canon lenses...\")
And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
On another topic...
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary...
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
...
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(i.e. - you seem to have ignored that I also wrote, in the same sentence, \"or to augment Canon lenses...\")
And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
On another topic...
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.)
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
On another topic...
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.)
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
On another topic...
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, and you leverage this to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.)
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
On another topic...
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, even though you leverage it to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
(And, for the record, there are \"pluses and minuses\" to consider — I have considered them — whether one is thinking of switching systems entirely or augmenting by purchasing a body.)
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
On another topic...
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive — especially once we arrive at the point where your extraction of the word \"replace\" (as one option) version the word \"augment\" becomes a major point, even though you leverage it to imply that I hold a point of view that I do not hold. ;-)
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
On another topic...
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument. :-)
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
On another topic...
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. I do understand the ways in which they excel and the ways in which their features do not make them ideal for everyone. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this will likely not lead us anywhere productive.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument.
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical? I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this is will likely not lead us anywhere productive.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument.
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
Sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you, and I\'m not trying to convince you to use a Canon body. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical. I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this is will likely not lead us anywhere productive.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument.
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
You know, sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical. I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this is will likely not lead us anywhere productive.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument.
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
super35 wrote:
Fascinating that the OP finally drops back in with this bombshell and it is completely ignored. Why do you guys always argue so much about small details that you fail to understand the bigger picture?
\"Bombshell\" might be overstating things just a bit... ;-)
You know, sometimes I get the impression that some folks are just looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. It is perfect! Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I was for changing. ;-)
I\'m not telling you to not use the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810, nor am I saying that the A7r isn\'t the best choice for you. For the 150th + 1 time, these are really fine cameras. But what is with the compulsion to insist to me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical. I just don\'t get this at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this is will likely not lead us anywhere productive.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspectives, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument.
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
You know, sometimes I get the impression that you are looking for an argument — and that the only thing I could post that would meet with your approval would be along the lines of \"The A7r is the best camera the world has even seen. Go out and buy one now! Nothing else is worth using.\"
Of course if I did post such a thing, then I\'d see the posts about how two-faced I am for changing.
I\'m not telling you to not us the A7r or a Sony D800 or D810. For the 150th + 1 time, they are really fine cameras. What is with the compulsion to tell me that my choice to use the cameras I use is wrong or somehow illogical. I just don\'t get that at all.
I could continue to try to explain to you the reasons for my choices in the context of my photography, but I\'ve been down this path enough times to understand that this is almost certain to not lead us anywhere productive.
So, I\'ll just try to keep posting objective descriptions of my perspective, share my thinking and reasoning, acknowledge that reasonable people can come to different conclusions...
... and spend less and less time trying to explain stuff to folks who sometimes seem to me to be less interested in a balanced understanding of the pluses and minuses of things and more in having an argument.
Take care,
Dan
artd wrote:
Although you may have read something into what I wrote, I did not conflate anything. I\'m just explaining my perspective on the issue as a person who has a fine Canon DSLR body and a system of Canon lenses, and I have repeatedly acknowledged (and even linked to) folks I respect who came to a different conclusion.
Dan, I don\'t think anyone is trying to convince you that you should buy an A7r. Let me go back to what you wrote:
Despite the compelling and wonderful features of the Sony A7r and the Nikon D800/D810 bodies (either as replacements for Canon systems or to augment Canon lenses), the extent to which moving to them in the interim between their introduction and Canon\'s eventual upgrade is a good value proposition will vary depending upon a lot of factors: how large one thinks the improvement in IQ is, how significant that improvement is relative to the work that one actually produces, to what extent the minuses outweigh the pluses, one\'s patience, and how deep the photographer\'s pockets are. For some, the answer is \"move now.\" For others, the answer is \"patience.\"
All that is fine and good...but this is where I think you conflated things which I percieve to be different. You use the terms \"replacements\" and \"augment,\" but then talk about pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses need to be evaluated if you move from one system from another. If you augument, you don\'t have minuses, because you are getting pluses from both cameras. That\'s the point I\'m trying to get across.
You bring up the \"waiting\" point regarding the Fujifilm system. This is a pretty different situation, and I\'m a bit surprised you don\'t see that.
I\'m suprised you don\'t see that an A7r, being a mirrorless camera, is closer to what your Fuji is than being a DSLR. You purchased your mirrorless Fuji to augment (not replace) your DSLR system. So it goes with many photographers who have purchased an A7r to augment their DSLR systems.
Sep 19, 2014 at 03:40 PM
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