michaelwatkins wrote:
I just can\'t see Sony going through heroic measures to tune the A7r for such lenses when they have to support their own lens designs first and foremost.
Whatever the lens construction of the FE line up, it apparently does not have the high incident light angle problem many wide angle RF lenses have, so Sony doesn\'t have to optimise the sensor for this.
If the A7r does treat these problematic lenses better then it\'s more by happy accident or coincidence (merely the removal of the AA filter?), because FE mount lens performance must always come first.
Whatever the case it is impossible to guess - the A7r sensor is completely different to the A7.
I don\'t think the removal of the AA filter alone is likely to be responsible for any color shift improvement caused by high incident angle. I think that the offset sensor ... IS ... designed to work in concert with the Sony glass exit pupil location, and any potential benefit to rangefinder glass is likely going to only be \"happy accident\" for those lenses with similar angles that can benefit from the amount of offset.
Do we know anything about the new Sony lenses regarding their exit pupil position, size and FL for their widest forthcoming lenses. If so, that could give a clue to the limits of the trig/vector forces involved that they\'ve determined at optimal or limit. We certainly are going to be in a \"wait & see\" mode, but I think we can look to what Sony engineers are doing on their new glass to garner a clue. Sony\'s marketing department has likely harnessed this a bit more aggressively by stating \"some\" gain for rangefinder, but I\'ve got little hope for WA/UWA rangefinder @ too close, too steep for digital FF on micro-lens, Bayer array. I think we are largely fooling ourselves if we think otherwise.
Noting Shelt\'s comment below that the 90mm isn\'t too bad ... it\'s a far cry from 90mm (or even 50) to UWA and I doubt the \"offset sensor\" can make up that much ground.
I\'m not strongly familiar with iconic color rangefinder images ... my memory is largely @ B&W rather than color. Just wondering about historic UWA rangefinder images on color film. Anybody with their favs to share (new thread maybe).
michaelwatkins wrote:
I just can\'t see Sony going through heroic measures to tune the A7r for such lenses when they have to support their own lens designs first and foremost.
Whatever the lens construction of the FE line up, it apparently does not have the high incident light angle problem many wide angle RF lenses have, so Sony doesn\'t have to optimise the sensor for this.
If the A7r does treat these problematic lenses better then it\'s more by happy accident or coincidence (merely the removal of the AA filter?), because FE mount lens performance must always come first.
Whatever the case it is impossible to guess - the A7r sensor is completely different to the A7.
I don\'t think the removal of the AA filter alone is likely to be responsible for any color shift improvement caused by high incident angle. I think that the offset sensor ... IS ... designed to work in concert with the Sony glass exit pupil location, and any potential benefit to rangefinder glass is likely going to only be \"happy accident\" for those lenses with similar angles that can benefit from the amount of offset.
Do we know anything about the new Sony lenses regarding their exit pupil position, size and FL for their widest forthcoming lenses. If so, that could give a clue to the limits of the trig/vector forces involved that they\'ve determined at optimal or limit. We certainly are going to be in a \"wait & see\" mode, but I think we can look to what Sony engineers are doing on their new glass to garner a clue. Sony\'s marketing department has likely harnessed this a bit more aggressively by stating \"some\" gain for rangefinder, but I\'ve got little hope for WA/UWA rangefinder @ too close, too steep for digital FF on micro-lens, Bayer array. I think we are largely fooling ourselves if we think otherwise.
Noting Shelt\'s comment below that the 90mm isn\'t too bad ... it\'s a far cry from 90mm to UWA and I doubt the \"offset sensor\" can make up that much ground.
I\'m not strongly familiar with iconic color rangefinder images ... my memory is largely @ B&W rather than color. Just wondering about historic UWA rangefinder images on color film. Anybody with their favs to share (new thread maybe).
michaelwatkins wrote:
I just can\'t see Sony going through heroic measures to tune the A7r for such lenses when they have to support their own lens designs first and foremost.
Whatever the lens construction of the FE line up, it apparently does not have the high incident light angle problem many wide angle RF lenses have, so Sony doesn\'t have to optimise the sensor for this.
If the A7r does treat these problematic lenses better then it\'s more by happy accident or coincidence (merely the removal of the AA filter?), because FE mount lens performance must always come first.
Whatever the case it is impossible to guess - the A7r sensor is completely different to the A7.
I don\'t think the removal of the AA filter alone is likely to be responsible for any color shift improvement caused by high incident angle. I think that the offset sensor ... IS ... designed to work in concert with the Sony glass exit pupil location, and any potential benefit to rangefinder glass is likely going to only be \"happy accident\" for those lenses with similar angles that can benefit from the amount of offset.
Do we know anything about the new Sony lenses regarding their exit pupil position, size and FL for their widest forthcoming lenses. If so, that could give a clue to the limits of the trig/vector forces involved that they\'ve determined at optimal or limit. We certainly are going to be in a \"wait & see\" mode, but I think we can look to what Sony engineers are doing on their new glass to garner a clue. Sony\'s marketing department has likely harnessed this a bit more aggressively by stating \"some\" gain for rangefinder, but I\'ve got little hope for WA/UWA rangefinder @ too close, too steep for digital FF on micro-lens, Bayer array. I think we are largely fooling ourselves if we think otherwise. Noting below that the 90mm isn\'t too bad ... it\'s a far cry from 90mm to UWA and I doubt the \"offset sensor\" can make up that much ground.
I\'m not strongly familiar with iconic color rangefinder images ... my memory is largely @ B&W rather than color. Just wondering about historic UWA rangefinder images on color film. Anybody with their favs to share (new thread maybe).
michaelwatkins wrote:
I just can\'t see Sony going through heroic measures to tune the A7r for such lenses when they have to support their own lens designs first and foremost.
Whatever the lens construction of the FE line up, it apparently does not have the high incident light angle problem many wide angle RF lenses have, so Sony doesn\'t have to optimise the sensor for this.
If the A7r does treat these problematic lenses better then it\'s more by happy accident or coincidence (merely the removal of the AA filter?), because FE mount lens performance must always come first.
Whatever the case it is impossible to guess - the A7r sensor is completely different to the A7.
I don\'t think the removal of the AA filter alone is likely to be responsible for any color shift improvement caused by high incident angle. I think that the offset sensor ... IS ... designed to work in concert with the Sony glass exit pupil location, and any potential benefit to rangefinder glass is likely going to only be \"happy accident\" for those lenses with similar angles that can benefit from the amount of offset.
Do we know anything about the new Sony lenses regarding their exit pupil position, size and FL for their widest forthcoming lenses. If so, that could give a clue to the limits of the trig/vector forces involved that they\'ve determined at optimal or limit. We certainly are going to be in a \"wait & see\" mode, but I think we can look to what Sony engineers are doing on their new glass to garner a clue. Sony\'s marketing department has likely harnessed this a bit more aggressively by stating \"some\" gain for rangefinder, but I\'ve got little hope for WA/UWA rangefinder @ too close, too steep for digital FF on micro-lens, Bayer array. I think we are largely fooling ourselves if we think otherwise (note below that the 90mm isn\'t too bad).
I\'m not strongly familiar with iconic color rangefinder images ... my memory is largely @ B&W rather than color. Just wondering about historic UWA rangefinder images on color film. Anybody with their favs to share (new thread maybe).
michaelwatkins wrote:
I just can\'t see Sony going through heroic measures to tune the A7r for such lenses when they have to support their own lens designs first and foremost.
Whatever the lens construction of the FE line up, it apparently does not have the high incident light angle problem many wide angle RF lenses have, so Sony doesn\'t have to optimise the sensor for this.
If the A7r does treat these problematic lenses better then it\'s more by happy accident or coincidence (merely the removal of the AA filter?), because FE mount lens performance must always come first.
Whatever the case it is impossible to guess - the A7r sensor is completely different to the A7.
I don\'t think the removal of the AA filter alone is likely to be responsible for any color shift improvement caused by high incident angle. I think that the offset sensor ... IS ... designed to work in concert with the Sony glass exit pupil location, and any potential benefit to rangefinder glass is likely going to only be \"happy accident\" for those lenses with similar angles that can benefit from the amount of offset.
Do we know anything about the new Sony lenses regarding their exit pupil position, size and FL for their widest forthcoming lenses. If so, that could give a clue to the limits of the trig/vector forces involved that they\'ve determined at optimal or limit. We certainly are going to be in a \"wait & see\" mode, but I think we can look to what Sony engineers are doing on their new glass to garner a clue. Sony\'s marketing department has likely harnessed this a bit more aggressively by stating \"some\" gain for rangefinder, but I\'ve got little hope for WA/UWA rangefinder @ too close, too steep for digital FF on micro-lens, Bayer array.
I\'m not strongly familiar with iconic color rangefinder images ... my memory is largely @ B&W rather than color. Just wondering about historic UWA rangefinder images on color film. Anybody with their favs to share (new thread maybe).
michaelwatkins wrote:
I just can\'t see Sony going through heroic measures to tune the A7r for such lenses when they have to support their own lens designs first and foremost.
Whatever the lens construction of the FE line up, it apparently does not have the high incident light angle problem many wide angle RF lenses have, so Sony doesn\'t have to optimise the sensor for this.
If the A7r does treat these problematic lenses better then it\'s more by happy accident or coincidence (merely the removal of the AA filter?), because FE mount lens performance must always come first.
Whatever the case it is impossible to guess - the A7r sensor is completely different to the A7.
I don\'t think the removal of the AA filter alone is likely to be responsible for any color shift improvement caused by high incident angle. I think that the offset sensor ... IS ... designed to work in concert with the Sony glass exit pupil location, and any potential benefit to rangefinder glass is likely going to only be \"happy accident\" for those lenses with similar angles that can benefit from the amount of offset.
Do we know anything about the new Sony lenses regarding their exit pupil position, size and FL for their widest forthcoming lenses. If so, that could give a clue to the limits of the trig/vector forces involved that they\'ve determined at optimal or limit. We certainly are going to be in a \"wait & see\" mode, but I think we can look to what Sony engineers are doing on their new glass to garner a clue. Sony\'s marketing department has likely harnessed the this a bit more aggressively by stating \"some\" gain for rangefinder, but I\'ve got little hope for WA/UWA rangefinder @ too close, too steep for FF.
I\'m not strongly familiar with iconic color rangefinder images ... my memory is largely @ B&W rather than color. Just wondering about historic UWA rangefinder images on color film. Anybody with their favs to share (new thread maybe).
Oct 19, 2013 at 07:58 PM
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