redisburning wrote:
Cogitech why would you put quotes around words that never actually appeared in my post?
I drew a parallel between \"actually talented photographers\" and \"real photographers\". I believe you and Exdsc are referring to the same thing. Neither of you have the right to make this distinction any more than any of us do. There are dozens of people in the Alt section alone that I would consider to be many times more \"talented\" or \"real\" than Moriyama. If I spent any time in the photo-related forums here I suspect I would find many more.
Everyone who is a photographer is a real photographer; unless they are animated string puppets or robots of course. That doesnt mean they are all talented.
Yes, it does. Talent does not have an on/off switch. There are varying degrees. It is all \"grey area\". Some are more talented than others, and some have almost none... Also, it can be gained or lost. Moriyama has lost his, apparently.
I just went ahead and said what I think; which is that a ton of people are full of themselves around here despite the photographic output being of a level clearly below what you would find in a first year university class.
I have seen such work. Pretentious, abstract, B&W, technically deficient shots that get the approval of the artsy-fartsy \"professor\", because that\'s what he learned, after all.
I like the mostly cordial gear discussions and there are a handful of talented people around, but that represents a tiny fraction of the FM population. FWIW I do not consider myself to be part of that subset.
I like looking at all the photos, from everyone. I like some shots better than others, and I like some people\'s style, PP, etc. better than others. End of.
But I do seem to have a better understanding of the breadth of what\'s out there photography wise than many here. How many people had never seen a Daido Moriyama picture or had any idea of who he is? The guy is so entry level that ignorance of his existence suggests a pretty substantial isolation, which fits in with people\'s demonstrated pretentiousness regarding their own photographs.
I disagree. I don\'t think people\'s pretentiousness about their own works gets in the way. I think their work gets in their way. Lots of people here simply love to shoot. Others have side businesses or even full-time businesses which keep them very busy. Either way, they are absorbed in their work. Most of them would benefit very little from staring at Moriyama\'s photos.
Some people are happy reading history books, taking courses, and looking at old photographs by \"masters\". Others might only do this seldom. Others, not at all. I don\'t think any conclusion as to the level of the person\'s pretentiousness can be drawn from this. However, in my experience the ones who have the greatest tendency toward pretentiousness are the ones who do more study/reading than shooting.
redisburning wrote:
Cogitech why would you put quotes around words that never actually appeared in my post?
I drew a parallel between \"actually talented photographers\" and \"real photographers\". I believe you and Exdsc are referring to the same thing. Neither of you have the right to make this distinction any more than any of us do. There are dozens of people in the Alt section alone that I would consider to be many times more \"talented\" or \"real\" than Moriyama. If I spent any time in the photo-related forums here I suspect I would find many more.
Everyone who is a photographer is a real photographer; unless they are animated string puppets or robots of course. That doesnt mean they are all talented.
Yes, it does. Talent does not have an on/off switch. There are varying degrees. It is all \"grey area\". Some are more talented than others, and some have almost none... Also, it can be gained or lost. Moriyama has lost his, apparently.
I just went ahead and said what I think; which is that a ton of people are full of themselves around here despite the photographic output being of a level clearly below what you would find in a first year university class.
I have seen such work. Pretentious, abstract, B&W, technically deficient shots that get the approval of the artsy-fartsy \"professor\", because that\'s what he learned, after all.
I like the mostly cordial gear discussions and there are a handful of talented people around, but that represents a tiny fraction of the FM population. FWIW I do not consider myself to be part of that subset.
I like looking at all the photos, from everyone. I like some shots better than others, and I like some people\'s style, PP, etc. better than others. End of.
But I do seem to have a better understanding of the breadth of what\'s out there photography wise than many here. How many people had never seen a Daido Moriyama picture or had any idea of who he is? The guy is so entry level that ignorance of his existence suggests a pretty substantial isolation, which fits in with people\'s demonstrated pretentiousness regarding their own photographs.
I disagree. I don\'t think people\'s pretentiousness about their own works gets in the way. I think their work gets in their way. Lots of people here simply love to shoot. Others have side businesses or even full-time businesses which keep them very busy. Either way, they are absorbed in their work. Most of them would benefit very little from staring at Moriyama\'s photos.
Some people are happy reading history books, taking courses, and looking at old photographs by \"masters\". Others might only do this seldom. Others, not at all. I don\'t think any conclusion as to the level of the person\'s pretentiousness can be drawn from this. However, in my experience the ones who have the greatest tendency toward pretentiousness are the ones who do more reading than shooting.
redisburning wrote:
Cogitech why would you put quotes around words that never actually appeared in my post?
I drew a parallel between \"actually talented photographers\" and \"real photographers\". I believe you and Exdsc are referring to the same thing. Neither of you have the right to make this distinction any more than any of us do. There are dozens of people in the Alt section alone that I would consider to be many times more \"talented\" or \"real\" than Moriyama. If I spent any time in the photo-related forums here I suspect I would find many more.
Everyone who is a photographer is a real photographer; unless they are animated string puppets or robots of course. That doesnt mean they are all talented.
Yes, it does. Talent does not have an on/off switch. There are varying degrees. It is all \"grey area\". Some are more talented than others, and some have almost none... Also, it can be gained or lost. Moriyama has lost his, apparently.
I just went ahead and said what I think; which is that a ton of people are full of themselves around here despite the photographic output being of a level clearly below what you would find in a first year university class.
I have seen such work. Pretentious, abstract, B&W, technically deficient shots that get the approval of the artsy-fartsy \"professor\", because that\'s what he learned, after all.
I like the mostly cordial gear discussions and there are a handful of talented people around, but that represents a tiny fraction of the FM population. FWIW I do not consider myself to be part of that subset.
I like looking at all the photos, from everyone. I like some shots better than others, and I like some people\'s style, PP, etc. better than others. End of.
But I do seem to have a better understanding of the breadth of what\'s out there photography wise than many here. How many people had never seen a Daido Moriyama picture or had any idea of who he is? The guy is so entry level that ignorance of his existence suggests a pretty substantial isolation, which fits in with people\'s demonstrated pretentiousness regarding their own photographs.
I disagree. I don\'t think people\'s pretentiousness about their own works gets in the way. I think their work gets in their way. Lots of people here simply love to shoot. Others have side businesses or even full-time businesses which keep them very busy. Either way, they are absorbed in their work. Most of them would benefit very little from staring at Moriyama\'s photos.
Some people are happy reading history books, taking courses, and looking at old photographs by \"masters\". Others might only do this seldom. Others, not at all. I don\'t think any conclusion as to the level of the person\'s pretentiousness can be drawn from this.
redisburning wrote:
Cogitech why would you put quotes around words that never actually appeared in my post?
I drew a parallel between \"actually talented photographers\" and \"real photographers\". I believe you and Exdsc are referring to the same thing. Neither of you have the right to make this distinction any more than any of us do. There are dozens of people in the Alt section alone that I would consider to be many times more \"talented\" or \"real\" than Moriyama. If I spent any time in the photo-related forums here I suspect I would find many more.
Everyone who is a photographer is a real photographer; unless they are animated string puppets or robots of course. That doesnt mean they are all talented.
Yes, it does. Talent does not have an on/off switch. There are varying degrees. It is all \"grey area\". Some are more talented than others, and some have almost none... Also, it can be gained or lost. Moriyama has lost his, apparently.
I just went ahead and said what I think; which is that a ton of people are full of themselves around here despite the photographic output being of a level clearly below what you would find in a first year university class.
I have seen such work. Pretentious, abstract, B&W, technically deficient shots that get the approval of the artsy-fartsy \"professor\", because that\'s what he learned, after all.
I like the mostly cordial gear discussions and there are a handful of talented people around, but that represents a tiny fraction of the FM population. FWIW I do not consider myself to be part of that subset.
I like looking at all the photos, from everyone. I like some shots better than others, and I like some people\'s style, PP, etc. better than others. End of.
But I do seem to have a better understanding of the breadth of what\'s out there photography wise than many here. How many people had never seen a Daido Moriyama picture or had any idea of who he is? The guy is so entry level that ignorance of his existence suggests a pretty substantial isolation, which fits in with people\'s demonstrated pretentiousness regarding their own photographs.
I disagree. I don\'t think people\'s pretentiousness about their own works gets in the way. I think their work gets in their way. Lots of people here simply love to shoot. Others have side businesses or even full-time businesses which keep them very busy. Either way, they are absorbed in their work.
Some people are happy reading history books, taking courses, and looking at old photographs by \"masters\". Others might only do this seldom. Others, not at all. I don\'t think any conclusion as to the level of the person\'s pretentiousness can be drawn from this.
Dec 06, 2012 at 12:26 PM
Previous versions of cogitech's message #11170469 « Diado Moriyama shooting jpg with a P&S »
