anthonygh wrote:
Some on here are very qualified to talk economic theory...what makes you think that being interested in photography means a poster doesn't have some useful qualifications?
Haha; thanks for the laugh!
Nothing makes me think that one interested in photography doesn't necessarily have "useful qualifications." Just as it is evident that an interest in photography doesn't necessarily make one an expert in economic theory. Some of those posts were somewhere between annoying and absurd, more steeped in their own form of political dogma than knowledge and thought. As one would expect when "discussing" a complex subject on an internet forum not devoted to that subject.
Jan 15, 2011 at 06:44 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
kakomu wrote:
Of course different glasses cost different moneys, but most glasses are very cheap. So what makes optical glass so much more expensive? Do you have any prices or costs of lens glass production to follow these claims?
I'm not particularly concerned about the various appeals to tradition or appeals to authority that people represent as rationalization for excessively expensive camera lenses. I'd like some reliable sources that can produce an actual number. Otherwise, it would appear that no one really knows what the lenses cost and merely accept that lenses are really expensive simply because the lens manufacturers sell them for a lot of money.
I believe the prices on glasses are marked up by a very large margin because of the extra labor in fitting lenses to glasses frames. It's like getting an oil change. It's not a particularly difficult task, but it can cost $40-$50 (normal price) for labor, despite being a short, easy task. However, as I've already mentioned, the prices that the end user pays say NOTHING about the actual production costs of the products. For instance, I bought frames for $120, which I'm sure cost closer to $1.20 to produce.
Considering a fair amount of the actual manufacturing process is automated, it would seem that costs should have gone down over time. Do you have any sources that document the costs to produce lenses at any point in time, or even the raw materials?
Edit: As an aside, I've done a little hunting, and optical glass prices to end users seems to range anywhere from $10-$150 per pound, which means the cost of manufacture is probably substantially lower. Even if Canon does something a little extra, I still find it difficult to believe that lenses aren't marked up to oblivion....Show more →
With your kind of logic an Intel or AMD processor for the PC should cost a few cent only. I have done some research and that's what the material is worth in the processor.....................
I don't think you really get it. You pay for the work they are doing on the glass. And the technology. just like you do with a processor for the computer. how much the glass or metal cost per pound has nothing to do with the price for the consumer in the end
Material cost are relatively low as compared to R&D costs.
I wonder how the price increase will affect say gear that will ship this year like the Series III Extenders, 8-15mm Fish, 600mm IS II & 400mm IS to name a few.
Lars Johnsson wrote:
With your kind of logic an Intel or AMD processor for the PC should cost a few cent only. I have done some research and that's what the material is worth in the processor.....................
I don't think you really get it. You pay for the work they are doing on the glass. And the technology. just like you do with a processor for the computer. how much the glass or metal cost per pound has nothing to do with the price for the consumer in the end
You got that right Lars. The products I manage are composed of maybe $10,000 in steel and some glass, silicon and a couple of CD's. We sell them for $1,500,000.
One thing a lot of people don't realize is that we put in around $25,000,000 in development of the product and put in roughly $2,000,000 yearly in maintenance and upgrades, not to mention marketing and sales.
In 2009, Canon's operating profit margin on camera products alone was 16.8%. Combined for all products, the operating margin in 2009 was only 6.8%. Please note operating margin is not net profit; net profit will be even lower.
Lars Johnsson wrote:
With your kind of logic an Intel or AMD processor for the PC should cost a few cent only. I have done some research and that's what the material is worth in the processor.....................
I don't think you really get it. You pay for the work they are doing on the glass. And the technology. just like you do with a processor for the computer. how much the glass or metal cost per pound has nothing to do with the price for the consumer in the end
If you're talking about the way that labor increases the price of an object, I already mentioned it here:
kakomu wrote:
I believe the prices on glasses are marked up by a very large margin because of the extra labor in fitting lenses to glasses frames. It's like getting an oil change. It's not a particularly difficult task, but it can cost $40-$50 (normal price) for labor, despite being a short, easy task. However, as I've already mentioned, the prices that the end user pays say NOTHING about the actual production costs of the products. For instance, I bought frames for $120, which I'm sure cost closer to $1.20 to produce.
More to the point, ALL consumer electronics nowadays are assembled in plants that use expensive machinery to fabricate or build the components. Motherboards, for instance, use long lines of machinery that solder leads, place ICs on the board as well as the various electronic components. However, despite being manufactured using expensive machinery, it's not an excessively priced piece of machinery.
However, This all skirts around the issue of how much it actually costs on a per-lens basis for Canon to produce their lenses. I mention glass, because people were trying to say, earlier in the thread, that the cost of optical glass is a paramount reason for the expense of lenses, now you're telling me it's not the price of the glass, but the expense of machines and labor.
Do you actually know the cost of making a lens?
Jan 16, 2011 at 12:45 AM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
JameelH wrote:
Interesting discussion. What is the cost of producing one DVD? Yet people have no qualms about paying about $700 for a copy of Photoshop. Just saying.
JameelH wrote:
Interesting discussion. What is the cost of producing one DVD? Yet people have no qualms about paying about $700 for a copy of Photoshop. Just saying.
There is a lot more than just the cost of the DVD when buying computer software.
I just talked with a retailer yesterday and they said, "there will be a substantial price increase on lenses April 1"
This conflicts with the posting above.
I believe the price increase is more due to exchange rates than anything else. That, and Canon lens prices are less than Nikon's, so they can increase prices and still be competitive. Also, growth in dSLRs is healthy.
I suppose I could thank Canon, I've been trying to focus less on buying gear and they keep raising the prices so I can't afford anything they make anymore. I'm also quite sure Canon won't notice they've lost me as a customer. C'est la vie.
