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Archive 2010 · My first wedding and my first post

  
 
danvprod
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p.2 #1 · My first wedding and my first post


I won't make specific comments on the images. I think they are fine for what they are. I agree with JC, avoid the pop up flash at all costs.

I suggest trying to find a local photog or 2 to shadow/assist/2nd shoot and do this as much as possible.

Don't get bogged down by the gear. I'm sure the best on this forum can shoot an A+ wedding with a 5d and 85mm f/1.8.

Next step would be to do some lower-pressure paid gigs, i.e. save the date sessions.

There will always be photographers that will do a $500 shoot and burn wedding and a lot of couples that will take it, and be happy with the results. These are not the folks that are making a living a photography. When you get right down to it, the time associated with shooting a wedding, hiring a lawyer to write a contract to save you butt, getting the appropriate business insurance, etc, filing state taxes etc., there is just no way that business model is sustainable.

I think it's cool that you went for it, and I'm sure the couple will be happy with the results because it was their day. If you are serious about persuing this learn as much as you can from as many sources out there. This forum is among the greatest resource. Watch videos. I highly suggest joining kelbytraining.com. We as photographers are never done learning.



Oct 27, 2010 at 01:08 PM
Robin Usagani
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p.2 #2 · My first wedding and my first post


danvprod, thanks for the link. I will definitely check it out. Oh and I didnt use pop up flash. I used 550EX with diffuser.

I have created an LLC and will file state tax. But right now I spend more money on equipment than making $$. I did some family pics and did not really enjoy it. I decided I want to pursue only wedding photography just so I dont have to compete with MWC. I have prepared a contract modified from template contract they have lying around the net. I will look into business insurance.



Oct 27, 2010 at 01:17 PM
HappyCamp
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p.2 #3 · My first wedding and my first post


schwettylens wrote:
danvprod, thanks for the link. I will definitely check it out. Oh and I didnt use pop up flash. I used 550EX with diffuser.


I think in the context here, it means the same thing.

Often when people say "pop up flash" they are really meaning "on camera flash". As opposed to off-camera flash where you have the light several feet (or more) away from the camera. Also more likely to be using an umbrella or other light softening device.



Oct 27, 2010 at 01:19 PM
Robin Usagani
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p.2 #4 · My first wedding and my first post


Im in the process of getting ebay trigger. I dont think my classic 5D can trigger remote flash can it?


Oct 27, 2010 at 01:26 PM
danvprod
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p.2 #5 · My first wedding and my first post


Well it sounds like you are on the right track. I think it's smart to dive in head first. Sounds like you have the business side worked out.

Insurance is smart and is very inexpensive compared to what you can imagine happending. 1 million in liability + equipment insurance is quite affordable.

I hear you about the $$ spent on equipment. It seems like it never ends. Stick with it and I am sure you will start to book more gigs, have less startup expenses and start seeing a profit.

I still think you should try to make friends and shadow another photographer for 8-10 weddings just to get a sense of how someone that has done it does it. Even if you have to do it for free, what you will learn about time management, equipment settings and choice and dealing with people will be worth the price of your time.

Plus if you are a 2nd you can 'experiment' to a certain degree without too much fear. Try different angles, settings, compositions etc., get reactions and emotion while the primary is shooting formals for example.

For reference, I am booking for my 2nd year shooting weddings. This year (my first year) I refused several requests to shoot as a primary because I didn't feel I was ready. I second shot for 2 local photogs 10 weddings. I also shot about 7 of my own save-the-date sessions and several senior/family. Next year I have started booking my own gigs, but will continue to 2nd shoot because I want the experience. I would have felt more comfortable shooting 20 weddings before shooting my own. For the weddings booked next year, I've made sure to have budgeted in a second shooter as well.



Oct 27, 2010 at 01:30 PM
danvprod
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p.2 #6 · My first wedding and my first post


I actually meant "direct flash". If you have the 550 ex, bounce it around, make the light source bigger, just avoid the flat, lifeless light of direct flash.

I highly suggest this web page as well:
http://neilvn.com/tangents/

Articles on his page are better than most any book you can find about lighting, exposure, flash techniques etc.



Oct 27, 2010 at 01:32 PM
Robin Usagani
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p.2 #7 · My first wedding and my first post


Any pro in Denver, CO area need my second shooter help? Please contact me.

Danvprod, how does it usually work with 2nd shooter? You just hand the 1st photog the RAW files (btw.. im thinking about ditching RAW and shoot strictly JPEG)? Or do you edit them first?



Oct 27, 2010 at 01:40 PM
CarminaF
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p.2 #8 · My first wedding and my first post


Read this, and use the search function.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/728814



Oct 27, 2010 at 01:42 PM
lisy78
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p.2 #9 · My first wedding and my first post


danvprod wrote:
Next step would be to do some lower-pressure paid gigs, i.e. save the date sessions.



What is a "save the date" session?



Oct 27, 2010 at 02:56 PM
LaurieM
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p.2 #10 · My first wedding and my first post


Wow! The critiques on this forum sound more like people who are envious of new photographers getting work, except for a few, these are not critiques at all but envious insults!!!!!
Laurie



Oct 27, 2010 at 03:04 PM
danvprod
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p.2 #11 · My first wedding and my first post


lisy78 wrote:
What is a "save the date" session?



save the date/just because/eShoot/connection session - engagement session. I would say the 'save the date' is an eShoot without necessarily signing a wedding contract.

Case study -

Couple here in Omaha was getting married back in their home state. Both going to school here. Wanted save the date cards, but was going to be using a local photog where they were from. We did the engagement session/save the date session here, got the cards printed so that the timeline worked out and that they didn't have to travel home to take advantage of the summer (they are getting married in the winter), we did the session in july.

I dunno....I make stuff up don't listen to me.



Oct 27, 2010 at 03:11 PM
Robin Usagani
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p.2 #12 · My first wedding and my first post


added video slideshow on the first post.


Oct 27, 2010 at 06:40 PM
jcolman
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p.2 #13 · My first wedding and my first post


LaurieM wrote:
Wow! The critiques on this forum sound more like people who are envious of new photographers getting work, except for a few, these are not critiques at all but envious insults!!!!!
Laurie


Laurie, I think I can speak for all pros when I say that no one here is envious of a new photographer getting work. What these people are trying to do is to help the new guy out so he doesn't make the same mistakes that we see over and over again.

Doug made some very good points in his initial post that our new friend would be well advised to follow. I have scanned this post and, while I did not read everything, I didn't see any insults. The new guy has some nice shots but he has a ways to go, as did we all, when we were starting out. The best teacher is experience but not necessarily at the expense of someones wedding. The best advice he received was "find a pro and work along side of him/her for a while, then strike out on his own"




Oct 27, 2010 at 08:19 PM
Robin Usagani
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p.2 #14 · My first wedding and my first post


Jcolman.. I will definitely try to find a pro to take me as 2nd shooter. However, who do you think should do these tiny weddings with super low budget? I think I should just go ahead and do them dont you think? It is not like there is a pro that will do it for $200.


Oct 27, 2010 at 08:31 PM
patrickphoto
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p.2 #15 · My first wedding and my first post


If you want second shooter situations, WHERE are you? Location would help alot of us include you as a second, third, referal, etc.

I agree with most things said, both bad and good.

The most important thing you should learn from these images, on your own, is that you are inconsistant. This comes with time, shooting and editing. Try to have a general tint, tone, contrast, and color.

PS: there wasn't a bad critique. A portion of all these critiques are valuable. The harsh words can only help you if you relax and listen.



Oct 27, 2010 at 08:55 PM
Robin Usagani
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p.2 #16 · My first wedding and my first post


Denver CO area


Oct 27, 2010 at 08:59 PM
dkmiles1
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p.2 #17 · My first wedding and my first post


schwettylens wrote:
Im in the process of getting ebay trigger. I dont think my classic 5D can trigger remote flash can it?


You are correct, a 5D cannot trigger a speedlite alone. BUT a speedlite mounted on a 5D can trigger another speedlite (Master/Slave), or you can trigger flashes remotely on the cheap by putting a transmitter on your 5Ds hot shoe (chinese manufactured triggers are all over eBay) - however, I don't recommend them if you're serious about pursuing wedding photography. Your best bet for the 5D is either the Canon Speedlite transmitter (its infrared so you need to be in the line of sight for a remote flash) or a pocket wizard. Neither is cheap, but they're both pretty reliable and can utilize ETTL if you want to go that route...

A great source for off-camera flash info is www.Strobist.com

BTW - with regard to your photos - I thought you did fine considering a) the couple knew what they were getting into, b) you can't control what they chose to wear c) I'm bot sure with either of their hairdo's was conducive to kemptness...javascript:void(0); and d) The reality is most of the shots that we as photographers are most critical of (telephone poles growing out of people's heads e.g.) aren't always noticed by the client (I said not always, not never) - especially in this era of digital cameras on nearly every device we carry around with us - cell phones, ipods, etc... Everyone's a crackpot photographer.

(Sadly) People are used to bad cell phone photography. So when they see a cool depth of field with a subject pretty well isolated, it stands out and probably looks pretty darn cool regardless of the images obvious shortcomings to a pro...

Moreover, as the price of DSLRs continue to come down to a more reasonable price point, more and more photographers are going to enter the arena. I'm amazed at how many DSLRs I see on vacations now...

As Dmacmillan correctly pointed out, cheaper cameras and good gear don't a great photographer make - experience, training, composition, and good gear (once you understand how to use it) etc will ultimately get you where you need to go. Based on this initial set, I think you're well on your way - obvious image shortcomings aside - you're images aren't great, but they're far from bad.

Keep after it!!



Oct 27, 2010 at 09:04 PM
gourdhead
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p.2 #18 · My first wedding and my first post


schwettylens wrote:
Im in the process of getting ebay trigger. I dont think my classic 5D can trigger remote flash can it?



My advice..... get some posing and camera technique books (or check out youtube...it will amaze you with the amount great info out there on photography) and then go look at lots of wedding photographers and check out their "style"......then shoot the heck out of volunteer subjects to try and find your style....heck find couples around your way that want some at cost pictures from you if they are willing to be guinea pigs with various poses and situations. Time will help....practice even more......and yes I feel that a wedding of a dozen was lucky to have you!! Keep on shooting and posting......there has got be some photogs in the area that would take you as a volunteer 2nd shooter for a smaller wedding they need to shoot...just remember...stay out of their way and shots and don't ask photog questions until he/she is done......my 2...well 4 cents...how this helps ya..
PEACE!
Gourdhead

Edited on Oct 27, 2010 at 09:13 PM · View previous versions



Oct 27, 2010 at 09:12 PM
Joogy
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p.2 #19 · My first wedding and my first post


schwettylens wrote:
I think I should just go ahead and do them dont you think? It is not like there is a pro that will do it for $200.


Just be careful. People on super low, super tight budgets typically seek to squeeze as much out of their dollars as they can. Therefore, those customers are more prone to complain after the wedding and nitpick, make up stuff, whatever, to get more out of you. They also tend to work the photographer harder, trying to get more production out of them. When I was first starting, there was a bride who came up to me near the end of the night while I was taking a break and had a stern tone in her voice asking me why I was sitting down. This is the way they're dealt with at work, being low paid employees, so this is the way they treat others.

It's not really a win for you, though, I have to tell you. You may think you're getting experience, and you are, a bit, but without training and guidance, you're going to probably spend YEARS re-inventing the wheel and not learning what you need to learn, unless it happens by happenstance. This is the problem with forgoing apprenticeship. Not just in the photography aspects of this profession, but in the business aspects as well. Coming to a forum like this, you'll get a wide range of opinions from all sorts of different experience levels, but you should only really heed the ones who are where you want to be, or find yourself following poor advice for a long time until you happen to realize better.

It's not really a win for you because the longer it takes you to be capable of earning more, the more it will cost you in the inability to have the life you want. You won't be able ever to buy back any time you spend going nowhere fast. Your family, wife, children as well either benefit or don't based on how well or not you do in this career. You owe it to them at least to be able to command a better professional fee for which you will deliver a better professional job. THAT's something to be proud of.

It's not a win for those customers, because the true cost is not what the out of pocket expense is today, the true cost is the value of the photography over their lifetime. If they freaked when they saw that huge lamppost coming out of their heads, or got upset with the way he's all rumpled in #12 and #15, or the different color light on their heads, or she becomes inconsolable over the blowing out of the details in her gown in most of her shots (women love the details in their gowns), or don't favor the "staring at the camera" look so many of the pictures have... and who knows what else because in my experience in lower budget land they can and will throw anything at you, real or perceived, and well, then that's a whole lot of grief every time they look at their images for the rest of their lives just because they didn't wish to spend some more today. What's the price of that again?

And you know, it's not like they're never ever going to earn another dollar again in their lives and can't afford better. They're going to some day buy a car, maybe a house, vacation, have a kid... IOW they will spend major money on items far beyond the cost of a pro photographer, so it's not like they really can't afford it. They CHOOSE not to afford it. Trust me, the money they kept because of paying you, they're blowing on something else, FWIW.



Oct 27, 2010 at 09:12 PM
cbradio09
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p.2 #20 · My first wedding and my first post


schwetty lens,

As a fellow upstart, I know how you feel about equipment and charging people to build a portfolio. My best advice coming from a few years working at a camera store combined with some on and off low key solo shooting and 2nd shooting for seasoned pros is this:

1) Shoot as much as you can.
2) Take the criticism in and better yourself with it. If someone is snide, shut them up with a stunning set of pics in the future.
3) Read and expand on your creativity through forums and any other media source. (Obv you already do this as you are on FM)

***
4) Just because people who charge $5K just to show up to a gig say you have no business in the wedding photographer trade rarely means they are correct. They may be correct if they say your ( or my ) photos do not contain the professional quality technique theres do. Well no sh** they don't, were just starting out. What matters is that you represent your skill level accurately and deliver your represented skill level. EVERYONE hates the guy that talks himself up and then posts garbage.

***

Now, in regards to this particular set, you show a very good amount of potential. Much of what I noticed has already been touched on. Your WB may not be off but the post processing fluidity, that is to say that every picture looks like it was shot in similar conditions, is a bit on the shaky side. Easy fix. Off camera flash or cranking ISO would have changed the look of several pictures as they have a very flashburned look to them.

All in all, not bad for a start. Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

Good luck,

Cam



Oct 27, 2010 at 09:14 PM
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