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Archive 2010 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)

  
 
sjms
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p.6 #1 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


GroovyGeek wrote:
Fair enough, though the video review on their web site highlights it as a feature of the pack. Most packs in this price range are either waterproof or include a rain cover. I say "most" to be safe, personally I am not aware of a single photo pack about $200 that does not have it.

I certainly sympathize with the sentiment. I wear prescription eyeglasses and go out of my way to avoid anything with a notable logo. Going completely logo-free is often not possible. Which size cover for the Loka? I found them on Amazon, but they do not list
...Show more

1- now you have. and even resonably WP pack still are wanting a raincover. fabric waterproof seams/stitching not. less seams to deal with on rain cover.

2-sizing is relevent to how much crap you are going to strap on it outside.

i have opted to try out a Black Tilopa BC w/XL ICU. i was just informed it will be a late spring delivery

oh well, i have patiance.



Jan 10, 2011 at 04:35 PM
SHVv
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p.6 #2 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


"i have opted to try out a Black Tilopa BC w/XL ICU. i was just informed it will be a late spring delivery

oh well, i have patiance."
**************
While you wait for the Tilopa BC, you might get a Loka with large ICU. I have both an older Tilopa and the Loka; both are useful. For general use, I prefer the Loka, however, I am now traveling with the Tilopa, an XL-ICU and L-ICU.

Steve



Jan 10, 2011 at 08:38 PM
GroovyGeek
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p.6 #3 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


sjms wrote:
http://www.seatosummit.com/products/cat/5

don't you live near a shop?


Shop? What is that? Sounds very quaint :-)

P.S. Thanks for the info. WHile I was dinking around the medium ICU went OOS. I will place an order, but if they tell me spring it is "adios F-stop". No discretionary purchase is worth a 3 month wait. I am sure that the people at F-stop are very nice and there are plenty of customer testimonials that their service is great. However, systematically running out of product and expecting customers to wait 3 months just does not speak very highly of their supply chain choices or their ability to manage them and forecast demand. I base the "systematic" comment on what Google turns up, as well as comments in this thread.




Jan 10, 2011 at 09:17 PM
sjms
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p.6 #4 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


i actually give some people a great deal of slack. others not so much. its tough to start something in the middle of a financial mess. at least they are trying and i give credit where its due. and finally if i'm not putting out money yet whats the issue? remember it is descretionary spending. its not like i need it yesterday. and if it what i feel i want i'm not going to settle for what i believe is the next best thing.

as to shops? they are places you go to when your total lack of info and experience leads you to a dead end.

i have something on order at B&H for close to a month now with no defined delivery date either. no one else has the item either so i wait.

actually this winter i have quite a few things on backorder. i haven't paid for them so its no issue.



Jan 10, 2011 at 09:51 PM
JohnJ80
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p.6 #5 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


GroovyGeek wrote:
Shop? What is that? Sounds very quaint :-)

P.S. Thanks for the info. WHile I was dinking around the medium ICU went OOS. I will place an order, but if they tell me spring it is "adios F-stop". No discretionary purchase is worth a 3 month wait. I am sure that the people at F-stop are very nice and there are plenty of customer testimonials that their service is great. However, systematically running out of product and expecting customers to wait 3 months just does not speak very highly of their supply chain choices or their ability to manage them and
...Show more

It's a little Indie company. Your choice would be pay considerably more and having it made in the US one at a time or pay less and have it made in china in bulk and shipped surface (ocean) for 3 weeks.

I'll take the Indie guys every time over the corporate guys for the simple reason the products are almost always better thought out and better built (often over built). That's the case with the F stop gear.

Given that the the Tilopa and Loka I bought last year have pretty much put my bag-a-holism (for backpacks) in remission, I'm glad I waited for them. Better than buying the majority of other camera backpacks that are useless for anything other than camera gear, are way, way too heavy and have crummy harnesses. For what I need them for, I've not found anything that works as well. I can ski hard all day with a Loka and be very comfortable and I haven't found anything else that worked as well and was as lift compatible.

If you want a backpack and you aren't going to do anything serious with it, then get any one of the other backpacks from LP, etc.. If you don't think it's worth the wait, then definitely don't buy the Fstop gear stuff. You won't appreciate it nor do you probably need it.

J.



Jan 10, 2011 at 10:46 PM
sjms
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p.6 #6 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


last i heard from Ian they were being done in Vietnam. but then that was last year

there is longer any major production in the USA. prototyping and thats only maybe. all the machines are in asia and we all know why. you book run time for your product manufacturing. you go to thes factories you will see multiple brand names being done in one factory.

as JohnJ80 said they are an Independent. which means they are low on the food chain for that time. most outfits like Jansport and NF (both owned by VF outdoors) with offices right down the hall from each other in CA book years in advance and have a clench on the needles and thread. this makes it difficult for fStop to get their product out while trying to maintain margin, QC, and timing. even getting the specific fabrics and colors you want can be problematic.

it can be done in the US if you put the effort into it. but it is still the path of least resistance and higher margins.

another example is RRS. they do the design and prototyping and use an US vendor machine shop nearby to do their production runs. now that vendor does other work too and can put a crimp in RRS's sales/delivery if they are booked doing other work.



Jan 11, 2011 at 08:32 AM
sjms
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p.6 #7 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


SHVv wrote:
"i have opted to try out a Black Tilopa BC w/XL ICU. i was just informed it will be a late spring delivery

oh well, i have patiance."
**************
While you wait for the Tilopa BC, you might get a Loka with large ICU. I have both an older Tilopa and the Loka; both are useful. For general use, I prefer the Loka, however, I am now traveling with the Tilopa, an XL-ICU and L-ICU.

Steve


ok, i threw down for one in green on your advisement. when it come the streetwalker HD goes up for sale.



Jan 11, 2011 at 08:53 AM
SHVv
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p.6 #8 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


Another "problem" that F-Stop has is that they modify their products based on user feedback. That really throws a curve into the factory scheduling. My Loka is a better design, in small details, than my Tilopa. That also is true for the new ICU designs. They are worth the wait, IMO.

Steve



Jan 11, 2011 at 10:48 PM
twisted125
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p.6 #9 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


NICE, Ive been prowling around for a nice bag for some time now. I have a canon backpack which holds all my camera stuff, no question. But, I would REALLY like to be able to carry my 15" MBP with it as well as maybe some room for a shirt etc. I currently have to carry my camera backpack, and my laptop bag. It gets cumbersome. I think I'd have to save for a while for one of these.


Jan 12, 2011 at 02:50 PM
GroovyGeek
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p.6 #10 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


Got my Loka (black) with large ICU, I originally wanted the medium ICU but they were OOS and, as documented on this thread, I lack patience. Initial impressions:

The good:
1) The internal frame seems to make a lot of difference to how this carries weight relative to the standard photo backpack
2) ICU is true to size, it was surprising how much stuff you can get into the large ICU, especially coming from LP bags which tend to overstate their capacity. Except for 1" larger nominal depth the large ICU has similar dimensions to a Lowepro Flipside 400AW but will carry seriously more gear, probably too much for my needs.
3) Good number of pockets and compartments for accessories, I wish there were more but what they have is not bad.
4) You can easily access the photo compartment without putting the pack on the ground, this is something I love in the LP Flipside series and is a big plus.
5) Unlike most other photo packs there is a real option to carry a midsize tripod without it flopping around on your every move. I do have a nit in this respect, see below.
6) The sternum strap is adjustable. An earlier poster had stated that it is fixed, but that is not the case. Perhaps the straps were just not adjustable enough to address the specific problem this poster was experiencing.
7) Zippers feel robust. Not as much as a typical ThinkTank, but I feel that those are overkill. The external zipper is sealed.

The so-so:
1) The quality of materials and construction seems only so-so given the cost. When you pull on the seams you can see them separate a bit. Fstop says they offer a 20 year warranty against manufacturing defects, but I wonder how many of the problems that could crop up as a result of weaker seams or non-reinforced attachment points could be considered normal wear and tear.
2) The shoulder and waist straps are sewn directly into the fabric. Except for somewhat heavier stitches there is no apparent reinforcement of the attachment points. I have to wonder how long this will last, particularly since I intend to access the back compartment while the pack is supported around my waist with the waist strap only. This definitely puts a lot strain on what does not look to be a particularly robust attachment point.
3) The rubberized fabric of the top compartment has a cheap feel and look. Some of the stitching in this area is sloppy. Tugging on the seams not very hard results in clear separation and leaves me with the impression that over time the rubberized fabric will tear as you insert and remove items from the pockets.
4) The rubberized fabric at the bottom of the pack does not feel very rugged, it is not obvious that it will fare well if you set it repeatedly and not very carefully on gravel and/or rocks with jagged edges.
5) It would have been really useful to have a cup or some type of detachable reinforcement on the bottom strap that is used to attach the tripod. Fold-way fabric cup similar to what LP does would have been ideal. If such a cup was present the straps could have been used to merely support the tripod in place, rather than carry its weight. As things stand today you have to cinch the straps rather tight to support a Gitzo series 2, and that tends to pull on the zippers and reduce the internal volume
6) The layout of the hooks, loops and seams on the shoulder straps is asymmetric. While that provides flexibility it also precludes you from easily attaching your camera to your shoulder straps. On most other packs I use Op/Tech short straps that attach to the shoulder straps, I then clip the camera to them and secure with the little remaining wiggle with the sternum strap to keep it from flopping around when I walk. This can be done on the Loka, but with a bit of a kludge. I would have preferred if they had two symmetric plastic hoops on both shoulder straps rather than the single one on the left side only.

The ugly:
1) The internal dividers are a hassle and an eyesore, see post 18 of this thread for a look. The grey cover fabric is FLIMSY and does not look like it will last very long. Because it is not attached to the underlying foam positioning the dividers is a pain in the a*s and I feel like removing the dividers is a tear risk on the grey fabric every time you do it, particularly on the ICU walls. Furthermore, since the dividers attach to the fabric only the whole arrangement is not the most robust. For example, if you try to strap down a lens that lies flat in the rather deep ICU, the strap velcros to very thin fabric with little other support to keep the lens from flopping around. This is a really, really big miss, at least for me.
2) The carrying strap is also flimsy, particularly given the weight that this pack can carry fully loaded. Not only is it thin, which is an inconvenience when lugging the pack on/off planes, around airports and transportation hubs, etc, but just like all other straps there is no apparent reinforcement of the attachment points except somewhat heavier stitching.

Overall my impression is positive, but I will have to decide how much item #1 in the "ugly" section bugs me.



Jan 19, 2011 at 02:51 AM
JohnJ80
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p.6 #11 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


Boy, I guess I don't see what you are saying. I've lugged mine through some heavy travel already and it looks new. I've skied it up and down mountains and nothing shifts or bangs around as you surmise. I haven't had it in the rain, but I have had it in heavy snow and it's done well. I find the carry handle to be quite secure even fully loaded - that one really surprised me.

I don't see the divider thing as any better or worse than other suppliers. I do think the module ICU set up is brilliant.

My only complaint is I wanted it in the red they have for the Tilopa.

J.



Jan 19, 2011 at 12:41 PM
sjms
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p.6 #12 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


JohnJ80
the hand strap will most likely hold a great deal of our weight

the dividers are identical to the rest out there

the material is standard hook/loop pile cover material used by just about everyone making these types of packs.

i haven't found any stitching issues that he claims as far as looseness

i think the Tilopa BC is going to replace the Tilopa







Edited on Jan 19, 2011 at 01:10 PM · View previous versions



Jan 19, 2011 at 12:52 PM
JohnJ80
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p.6 #13 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


Yep,we agree. Good characterization.

Tilopa BC? I haven't seen that one yet. Any info on that?

J.



Jan 19, 2011 at 12:56 PM
SHVv
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p.6 #14 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


JohnJ80 wrote:
Yep,we agree. Good characterization.

Tilopa BC? I haven't seen that one yet. Any info on that?

J.



http://fstopgear.com/en/tilopa-bc

Steve



Jan 19, 2011 at 01:00 PM
sjms
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p.6 #15 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


that the one i have on order waiting for the XL ICU


Jan 19, 2011 at 01:12 PM
JohnJ80
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p.6 #16 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


Cool. I have a Tilopa from almost a year ago. This looks like a nice improvement.

Turns out, I use the Loka a lot more now but they are both terrific packs.

J.



Jan 19, 2011 at 01:38 PM
sjms
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p.6 #17 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


i think we can agree, forced evolution through customer feedback. one of a select few companies that actually listen.


Jan 19, 2011 at 03:24 PM
sjms
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p.6 #18 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


i've also never been a fan of attaching my camera to my shoulder straps.

quality of materials? actually pretty good considering the price. the ripstop fabric is good stuff. the vinyl based base material is going to mar on contact but will do better then the fabric itself in the long run.

mr groovygeek what particular material/materials would you have used?

no matter which way you chinch up an item onto a pack you are going to put a load on one part or another. the pack itself is a flexible product.



Jan 19, 2011 at 03:31 PM
GroovyGeek
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p.6 #19 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


JohnJ80 wrote:
Boy, I guess I don't see what you are saying. I've lugged mine through some heavy travel already and it looks new.

This is good to know.

I've skied it up and down mountains and nothing shifts or bangs around as you surmise.
Not surmising anything, I was speaking from brief but actual experience. Let me be a bit more specific with my observation. A midsize lens such as the Nikon 70-300VR is too long to be placed vertically. However, when laid flat it only fills the slot it sits in to 1/2 height and unless the space above it or below it is padded with something else it most definitely moves around a lot even during a brief test walk around the neighborhood. You can try to use one of the elastic straps to try to keep it in place, but this brings out the major weakness of this pack --- the internal lining of the ICU.

I find the carry handle to be quite secure even fully loaded - that one really surprised me.
Perhaps I could have been clearer here, thanks for pointing out the inconsistency. My main concern about the carry handle is that it is very thin and lacks any padding. I find it uncomfortable even when testing around the house. The statement about its security was just speculation. It is sewn directly to the fabric, which does not seem like a very robust choice, but I could easily be wrong. Good to hear that you have not had problems with it.

I don't see the divider thing as any better or worse than other suppliers. I do think the module ICU set up is brilliant.
The modular ICU is indeed a great idea. However, the implementation is not so great. See post #18 of this thread by another member to see what I am taking about. The lining is not attached to the dividers or the sidewalls and separates easily with even a minor effort. I have owned bags by LowePro, Kata, ThinkTank and Tamrac and there the attachment of the lining to the frame is A LOT more secure.

This may not seem like a big deal, but if you try to secure smaller things in the ICU with the provided straps you will see what I am talking about. Take my 70-300 as an example. You cannot attach the strap across the dividers, you have to velco it to the side INSIDE the compartment where the lens is placed. Since the lining pulls away from the sidewall so easily this does not secure the lens in place at all, and merely putting your backpack on your bag, walking around with it for 5 mins and placing it back on the ground seems sufficient for the lens to slip away.

You CAN secure it with abit of effort, but you have to wrap the strap around the lens and let the weight of the lens itself secure it in place. This is a big difference from the behavior of every other bag I have owned, and I have gone through about a dozen of them. This should not be a big issue for those that mostly cary f/2.8 and above lenses that fill the ICU more than halfway. However, those of us that use more compact lenses that do not fit vertically are going to face the challenge I describe.



Jan 22, 2011 at 11:18 PM
sjms
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p.6 #20 · F-Stop Loka, finally! (bonus: side-by-side Tilopa)


the Handle is essentially a grab loop to assist in putting on the pack on. it is not a luggage carry. you do have the option of padding it yourself.

this is how i've been carrying mine and the pretty much stay in place
http://i.pbase.com/o6/89/44489/1/131956534.Jn0dhdUC.IMG_0196.jpg

i can see to an extent your personal issue with the dividers. but its a give and take. where the dividers in the others bags you mentioned except the Kata are limited as to positioning due to the lack of hook and loop on all surfaces the ICU allows for any point and a little more stitching points may stabilize the fabric itself
on the Kata product. it is laminated to itself and to a point a reasonable idea. you can get a kit to customize the dividers but in execution its not all that much fun to play with when you have to position and reposition.

i do like the thin dividers on TT product but i'll take the overall freeform capability of the fstop.
http://i.pbase.com/o4/89/44489/1/114837265.EPMUrDrp.IMG_0881.jpg
as to slippage out of the slots. not happening with my stuff. maybe you just need more padding or snugging up. i've removed dividers for mine and set them up to be quite cosy in their little beds. i don't even use the cross straps. sliding out with my back pushing against the load?

all of them are less then perfect in one way or another.


Edited on Jan 23, 2011 at 01:52 PM · View previous versions



Jan 23, 2011 at 11:48 AM
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