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Archive 2010 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?

  
 
joeinla
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p.1 #1 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


Hello All,

I'm a bit bombed and, while surfing the web, came across the Academy of Art's online program, which costs $2,300 a course.

I'm NOT a professional photographer by any standard, and have a part-time (though well paying) job, and was wondering if this type of course is worth it. When I say "worth it", I mean is actual skill development, NOT income potential . I want to learn to be as good a photographer as I can be, and was wondering if a "degree" or "college" courses was worth the expense.

Any thoughts/comments/perspective on the training one receives from a college type education in photography would be greatly appreciated. If it matters, I'm an older college graduate with a professional degree (and job) looking for a way to take my photography "to the next level" (i.e., more than pictures of my friends/family/dog). I will keep my day job, but I really, really enjoy photography.



Jun 22, 2010 at 10:17 PM
Bernie
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p.1 #2 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


I'm not a pro, but hopefully can offer some advice. Much of the decision is one you need to make based on how you learn. Some people do well with structured classes; others not.

Many of us on FM have learned by experimenting on our own, asked questions on this forum, read books, gone to other websites for info, as well as participated in the weekly and monthly assignments.

Personally, I would put my money into the equipment I would want to grow into and teach myself how to use it (well, you have some of that equipment covered)....

Also, FM members sometimes get together for outings that can be worthwhile. Or check out a photography group on:

meetup.com



Jun 22, 2010 at 10:35 PM
GCasey
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p.1 #3 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


I'm not familiar with this school, but would suggest looking at a couple of options.

Your circumstances will differ, but I"ll mention two options where I live.

1) Two local colleges and a university here offer certificate degrees in photography. Friends who have taken the courses rave about them. Some course work is done on-line.

2) Do a search for a camera club in your area. Our club has grown from 40 to 140 in five years, and people from an hour away, in all directions. Skills range from beginner to professional level. A program (educational) once a month, a monthly competition meeting, photo walks (get together and go take pictures), and small challenge groups provide a variety of learning experiences. The club's site is: www.westbridgecc.com. None of the members are in photography full-time, bu the participate because of the learning activities.




Jun 22, 2010 at 10:43 PM
Skarkowtsky
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p.1 #4 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


In general, Art School is a valuable resource. Finances providing, I would recommend that you attend a classroom, for the full effect.


General thoughts:

Faculty: Some schools are comprised of working professionals (usually leaders in their respective industries), so the insight and approach to the medium that you gain from them is sort of like a one-on-one understudy. However, don't get distracted by the assumption that they know everything, including how they approach the creative process.

Classroom: There is much to be said about learning about yourself and others in a classroom environment of 15-22 students. It simply opens you up to new schools of thought, and subsequently pushes you to try harder, and think outside of the box. Also, group critique of student work is an indispensable asset when you're learning about the creative process. It's much easier to absorb criticism, discuss, agree upon, and contradict someone's work in person. This is probably one of the most fundamental components when entering the art world as a profession, and something you should consider when applying to schools.

Atmosphere: Art schools pride themselves on the student body, and there is an overwhelming sense of encouragement on campus, including monthly gallery shows of student and professional work, exhibitions, and lectures by alumni and notable figures in the art world. These experiences (as insignificant as they might seem now), will help refine your thought process about, and approach to creativity. Furthermore, this is something you cannot experience from your home. Immerse yourself in the surroundings; it will be inspiring.

By and large, it's not all a walk in the park, and there is much to learn after graduation. Though, attending a school that will attempt to open you up (if you accept the challenge and apply yourself), will give you a slight edge over your competitors. If not, at least it will expedite the process of learning on your own.

If you're not interested in holding a BFA, these schools offer strong Continuing Education courses, too.

Hope this helps!



Jun 23, 2010 at 09:38 AM
ExtendedPuppet
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p.1 #5 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


I don't know anything about the online course you saw, but the fact that is an online course makes me think it might not be worth the $$$. Online might be a fine way to learn accounting, but not an artistic discipline, IMO... Of course, something is better than nothing, so if that's the only option, and you have the cash, try it out?

I agree with all that's been said above. If you have the time and $ for a full BFA program, that would most likely be an awesome experience. But even taking some art or photo classes at a local college could be very rewarding, and a good time. And if you can't fit that into the budget, look for clubs etc and get involved.

(Taking some traditional art classes can be very helpful, and fun too, btw)



Jun 23, 2010 at 06:59 PM
AnthonyRhoades
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p.1 #6 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


Yes. They aren't the end all be all, but it's a great base.

Look at art schools and photo schools and programs such as Brooks http://www.brooks.edu/ , SVA http://www.schoolofvisualarts.edu/ug/index.jsp?sid0=1&sid1=39 , Art Center http://www.artcenterphoto.com/
and smaller, though well respected community college degree programs such as SCCC http://www.seattlecentral.edu/programs/photography/

There is real value in the group critique and dynamic and there is much to be said for having to produce all the time to complete assignments. The basics and more give you a real foundation to build upon and the resources of a structured program is amazing when you think about studio space, hardware and software and lighting equipment. It's something that is very expensive to have access to on your own.

Also, a degree in photography is helpful and enlightening in the sense that your eyes are opened to the many career opportunities in the industry that don't involve shooting for a living.

I would advise against camera clubs and too much online learning - same goes for workshops.





Jun 23, 2010 at 07:17 PM
glort
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p.1 #7 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?



You can learn how to be a good shooter for free with the almost endless resources and tutorials on the web these days.

You can also do seminars and workshops where you can ask questions and get ideas from other attendees which is sometimes more valuable than the course itself!

If you do get an inkling to earn your living or an income from photography, do some business courses and educate yourself in sales and marketing before you do anything else.



Jun 24, 2010 at 03:27 AM
Nathan Whitchu
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p.1 #8 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


I have yet to hear from someone who has finished a photography degree that it was a waste of time or money. I have heard from several people who dropped out of a photo degree that they felt they weren't learning enough or some other reason that they stopped going. I often hear that the photo courses were a good base but that real world experience was also needed. I've often heard that the additional courses needed for a regular degree were a waste of time and many thought they should have gone to a photographic technical school (such as Hallmark which is a fairly short drive from me). FWIW I have no formal education in photography and I'm a fairly successful PJ around where I am. I'm still working my way up the ladder and fleshing out my business but I'm earning a living. I took a six months technical school for tv/video production and I found it worth the 10k it cost me to go and buy a pretty basic set of gear. I'm personally at a point where getting a degree would be worthless and frankly I can't spare the time from my business to go to school. But if you're just starting out I would strongly consider a technical school for photography.




Jun 24, 2010 at 07:32 AM
Ryan Pream
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p.1 #9 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


Anyone here attend Hallmark? I had a successful photographer recommend it to me.

Personally, I'd absolutely love to go to one, but I'm not sure if spending so much time and savings on school would be worth it versus the time doing self study. I've been photographing about a year and feel I am making strong progress on my own.

Ryan



Jun 24, 2010 at 11:25 AM
nathanlake
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p.1 #10 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


Depends on what you want from it and what you put into it.

First, it is not about the degree. Lots of very stupid people have degrees. Getting that degree did not make them any smarter or better at their jobs. In fact, you can probably buy a photography degree online without ever taking a class. In fact, send me $500 and I will send you a diploma.


A degree is not going to make you a professional and not going to get you a job...especially in the current economy.
A degree is not necessarily going to make you a good photographer.
A degree will not impress a lot of people.
A degree does not even guarantee you will be a better photographer or that you have learned anything.


It is about the education. A good learning experience will make you a better photographer. If the curriculum they offer teaches the things that you want to know, then it will be beneficial.

If you go into it with all that in mind, and really want to learn, then attending a reputable program is not a bad idea.



Jun 24, 2010 at 12:47 PM
Micky Bill
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p.1 #11 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


If you want to work for yourself a degree is not needed. Many if not most photographers I know don;t have a degree, maybe 50%-50%

If you want to work for a large company a degree is pretty much required.
If you want to work for a government entity a degree is pretty much required.
If you want to teach photography a degree is pretty much required.
A degree will impress alot of people.



Jun 24, 2010 at 02:47 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #12 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


I have a degree in Photography (BFA) and in the last twenty-four years not a single person has asked to see it. Clients only care that you can produce what they need. Does that mean the paper wasn't worth it? Not at all. The work ethic instilled and more importantly, the people I met and studied with, are what made Art Center worth while. The most important part was working with the very same design students who would later be the ones who would hire me on the outside, some of whom I've been working with since half way through school twenty-six or so years ago. There are a lot more resources available via the web than when I was in school (not a single computer and Photoshop was still in dream for Thomas Knoll) but online resources, as good as they are will never replace the feedback and criticism you get from the live interaction of a classroom and the friendly competition of twenty students trying to kick each other's ass every week.

The biggest problem I see is that too many of the schools have not figured out how they fit into the twenty-first century and how or what their prospective graduates are going to do. The chairperson of Art Center's Photo Department recently told a friend applying there that he had now idea what they were preparing students for but that my friend should trust them to impart the "Art Center" way on her. I told her to turn around and walk the other way.



Jun 24, 2010 at 05:26 PM
Erie Patsellis
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p.1 #13 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


I've worked as a graphic artist and commercial photographer for the last 25 or so years, mostly reasonably successfully. At 47, I'm reaching that point in life where I want to slow down, work for somebody else and enjoy life a little bit instead of working 18 hour days, 7 days a week. After numerous interviews and portfolio reviews where my work was well received, but the company has a requirement of a minimum of a B.A. or B.F.A.I finally decided to return to school to get a BFA and ultimately an MFA.

In the past year and a half, while I really haven't learned anything from a technical standpoint, but I've been able to refine my design skills and compositional techniques, as well as growing a thicker skin due to peer reviews. It's not for everybody, and you do need to be able to connect the dots, and how the pure aspects of design relate to photography. But for those that are willing to work hard, it can make a good photographer a much better one, and help form a great photographer into an extremely skilled photographer.



Jun 24, 2010 at 08:15 PM
Skarkowtsky
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p.1 #14 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


+1, Erie. Design principles complement those of photography.


Jun 24, 2010 at 10:25 PM
Still Bill
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p.1 #15 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


I think in your case (i.e. looking to improve/gain photographic skill and not get a degree or change careers), that this approach doesn't represent good value to you. I checked out A of A's website, and while it's well-respected (with legitimate accreditation - many online schools don't have that), I don't think a lot of the classes will get you where you want to be, and that could get expensive.

$2300 per class is pretty steep ($11,500/semester $23k/yr full time, plus books, software and hardware) to 'take the long way around the barn' to get to the nuts and bolts skills it sounds like you're after. It's not unreasonable tuition for a good private college (price out Duke University, for example), but in skill learned vs money and time invested, I just feel you'd be better off going a different route, particularly since your intention isn't going for a degree or a career change.

I'd imagine you'd be better off spending your money on one (or more) of the traveling seminars/workshops, maybe something along the lines of Kelby Training, Nikon School, etc. that put on 1-3 day workshops in different cities (some workshops are longer, up week, and travel ones can be longer). Since you're working part-time, you could probably swing a couple of days away from work to attend some of those, especially when they come to L.A. or San Diego. If you wanted to make a weekend of it, you could attend one in a location you'd like to visit anyway, like Seattle, Tampa, New York, or Las Vegas.

For workshops/seminars, you could pick specific skills you want to learn, like Zack Arias' 'One Light' workshop, David Hobby's 'strobist' seminars, Scott Kelby, one of the bunch from 'Luminous Landscape' (www.luminous-landscape.com/workshops/), and a host of others. Many accomplished professionals put on seminars and workshops that might give you a more direct result and return for your time and money. Even the infamous Ken Rockwell partners with Dave Wyman to co-teach workshops for Route 66, Bodie/Mono lake, Yosemite, etc.

While I was checking out A of A's website (and checking their credentials/accreditation), I did notice they list the course textbooks and recommended reading for their classes in the Course Catalog section (undergraduate program>photography major>fall 2010 schedule, under 'course details'). No reason you couldn't read the same books if you like to learn that way. I may get one or two myself...looks like worthwhile reading.




Jun 25, 2010 at 01:19 AM
Beni
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p.1 #16 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


What do you want to achieve with this degree? If it's a job in photography then I'd check out the figures, it's not a good market for photographers these days..


Jun 25, 2010 at 08:34 AM
Kibsgaard
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p.1 #17 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


Some of you will perhaps say, that this is for amateurs, and perhaps some will say it is too costly, but if you go for skill 3 or 4, you can get some valuable tips - even you can get a lot of them from the net - and you will get fine critique of your photos, the latter is important for me

http://www.betterphoto.com/mgAdmin/a_Welcome.asp




Jun 25, 2010 at 08:40 AM
Erie Patsellis
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p.1 #18 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


Skarkowtsky wrote:
+1, Erie. Design principles complement those of photography.

I resisted formal education for a very long time, 29 years, and while it's expensive (23k/year), many private schools have significant funding to offset the tuition. In my case, due to my GPA when I transferred from the local CC (3.925), and the faculty's assessment of my portfolio, all of my tuition is covered by academic or talent grants.

Granted, my income the last few years hasn't been very high, but if you want to do it, don't let finances get in the way, you will find a way. Some months we could barely cover living expenses, yet I managed to find funding. I would suggest going to a school that offers a BFA or BA, and is accredited by the NASAD.



Jun 25, 2010 at 09:27 AM
Skarkowtsky
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p.1 #19 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


You were fortunate, Erie. When I transferred from SVA to MICA, then back to SVA (with a 3.6), I lost most of my academic credits, though all of my studio credits were intact. Subsequently, I had to pay once again to attend courses that I had already aced at MICA because the course descriptions didn't align in the registration catalogs. I mean, how many times does one need to study Ancient through Gothic, and Renaissance through Modernism Art History before they trust you understand it? The worst part was that both schools discussed the same works through the ages! I should have appealed with the Dept. Chair.

I should have never left SVA in the first place! Now I hold a BFA in a dead design market. Note to OP: DON'T TRANSFER!

Makes me wonder...haha.




Jun 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM
rkgatteleport
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p.1 #20 · Is a Degree Worth the Cost?


Joe,

Its a good thing you prefaced your comments by looking for the skill development
value - "starving artist" is so often a truism...

It really depends on what the degree courses cover and what you mean by
"the next level" - are you talking about basic technical skills (like what all the various
camera knobs do and why/when you might use them), specific things you
want to work on (like fine art printing or studio portrait photography), focusing your artistic vision/finding your inner voice, or what?

While everybody learns differently, I'm really uncertain just how much you'd get out
of an "online" arts program where there was little, if any direct human interaction - I think Anthony's point about the group dynamic is really important, particularly if
you are trying to develop as an artist rather than learn a specific skill.

Depending where you are already in terms of knowledge, you might be better served
by first checking out what courses are offered at your local community college/
arts center/parks department. Depending on what you want, some continuing
ed or "practical" level CC courses might be exactly what you need (and certainly
a lot cheaper...). They might also clarify your thinking on what you are looking for
so you can better decide what (if anything) to do next...

Workshops can be good too,but really it seems like you kind of need to know what you
don't know before taking these, but maybe that's just me...

Good Luck,

rkg
(Richard George)




Jun 25, 2010 at 01:24 PM
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