fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              5       6       end
  

Archive 2010 · digital rangefinder

  
 
Lotusm50
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #1 · digital rangefinder


Daniel Heineck wrote:
A properly done mag shutter would be lighter at the same thickness as an aluminum shutter and less stiff, or stiffer than an alu shutter at the same weight (due to stiffness following a r^4 dependence).



Yes, or, given the r^4 dependence, both lighter and at least as stiff by designing the product between the 2 examples you mention. I would also point out that the there have been recent advance in magnesium alloys that have improved corrosion and fatigue properties. Attaching Mg shutter curtains would really not be difficult. Lots of effective ways to join dissimilar materials. The question would be is there enough in it to justify the effort, other than the marketing angle that could present this as an innovative advance. I'm not sure there is. But if the original statement about ther being a magnesium shutter is true, then the reason for doing so is probably among the ones we've discussed.



Daniel Heineck wrote:
All in all, appropriate force analysis and an anisotropic material (e.g. boron/carbon fiber, aligned MMC's) aligned to the most relevant forces would probably be the best of all worlds as far as a shutter, but who knows. I don't know how much this would really improve the mechanism beyond a slightly higher sync speed.



Yes indeed, an aligned boron or carbon fiber composite or metal matrix would indeed be the best of all worlds. And yes, the main benefit to all this would be speed and perhaps power consumption and the structural requirements for the shutter (speculating here). It could be that the reference to a "magnesium shutter" could be referring to a magnesium matrix composite rather than a magnesium alloy shutter.

Clearly, all of this is speculation based on the original statement. We'll just have to wait and see what the truth is when the product eventually emerges (assuming that this is not an early April Fools prank).




Mar 30, 2010 at 03:09 PM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #2 · digital rangefinder


If this is real, it would seem to me that Zeiss would be a likely candidate, as they sell lots of M-mount rangefinder glass, and there have been rumors for some time time now of a "digital Ikon."


Mar 30, 2010 at 03:18 PM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #3 · digital rangefinder


Lotusm50 wrote:
Yes, or, given the r^4 dependence, both lighter and at least as stiff by designing the product between the 2 examples you mention. I would also point out that the there have been recent advance in magnesium alloys that have improved corrosion and fatigue properties. Attaching Mg shutter curtains would really not be difficult. Lots of effective ways to join dissimilar materials. The question would be is there enough in it to justify the effort, other than the marketing angle that could present this as an innovative advance. I'm not sure there is. But if the original statement about ther
...Show more

And speaking of carbon fiber, Nikon uses a composite material of carbon fiber and kevlar in their D3 shutters which are rated at 300,000 cycles. Sort of hard to trump that for exotic material use and shutter durability.



Mar 30, 2010 at 03:52 PM
Daniel Heineck
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #4 · digital rangefinder


Cyberstudio--we can by and large discuss the different metal categories because aircraft/military-grade alloys of all of these metals and composites are pretty well known. There's few secrets to be held from that end of the world and the shutter blade's behavior is pretty well characterized. I'd be looking for as lightweight, and stiff of a material as possible for the application (at least off first order principals). Magnesium alloys slot in here great.

I'd say it's more a problem with balancing the state-of-the-art materials with cost and integration. Your chart of the fastest shutter speeds tells us that exactly. Aluminum alloys, which seems to be the de facto shutter material of the moment sits very nicely on the light-enough, stiff-enough, and cheap-enough spectrum (outside of some really weird alloys).

Aluminum alloys were pretty exotic for a while until foundries could do the material justice. The demand was there, and the adoption of aluminum alloys was pretty quick (see this to get geeked out). Magnesium-based alloys, which is coming much more into use as of late, are competing with aluminum-based alloys in similar applications. They all have different advantages and disadvantages depending on intended use.

Lotus and Rob--We seem pretty much to be entirely in agreement. Here's to hoping all our rather comical speculation and analysis comes to some fruition



Mar 30, 2010 at 03:58 PM
wolfloid
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #5 · digital rangefinder


I agree with andrewd01, the combination of accurate mechanical focusing and AF does not add up. I tend to think that this is an elaborate April Fools.

That does not mean that I don't want it to be true - I most certainly do.



Mar 30, 2010 at 03:59 PM
abam
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #6 · digital rangefinder


i have to go with april fool/publicity stunt.

new full frame rangefinder with stellar AF and 35 1.2?

if i'm wrong, great. if not, whatev.




Mar 30, 2010 at 05:47 PM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #7 · digital rangefinder


wolfloid wrote:
I agree with andrewd01, the combination of accurate mechanical focusing and AF does not add up. I tend to think that this is an elaborate April Fools.

That does not mean that I don't want it to be true - I most certainly do.



In the context of a Contax G2 type highly sophisticated electronic rangefinder, it might just add up.



Mar 30, 2010 at 06:07 PM
douglasf13
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #8 · digital rangefinder


I hate to risk saying this, but I highly doubt that Jeff would risk his rather high credibility on an April Fool's joke.


Mar 30, 2010 at 06:09 PM
thrice
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #9 · digital rangefinder


Jeff, Zeiss have repeatedly denied plans to develop a digital rangefinder, but I do hope it is them, if it's 'affordable' I might even buy one.

Douglas, one would hope he's serious, but if he's not, no biggie, it shows the market is desparate for such a product; judging by threads on multiple forums.



Mar 30, 2010 at 06:28 PM
Lotusm50
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #10 · digital rangefinder


thrice wrote:
Jeff, Zeiss have repeatedly denied plans to develop a digital rangefinder, but I do hope it is them, if it's 'affordable' I might even buy one.



I believe Zeiss' comment on the subject is they are waiting for a sensor that is good enough. Has the state-of-the-art progressed sufficient since they made those comments such that they have what they were waiting for?




Mar 30, 2010 at 06:36 PM
thrice
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #11 · digital rangefinder


I suppose so, but the behind the scenes is typical a generation or two ahead of what we see in retail. A specific camera typically spends 3-4 years in development before it hits the market. I'm holding thumbs for a Zeiss, but I'm betting on a SoCaNikon.

... and even moreso on an April Fool's joke.



Mar 30, 2010 at 07:24 PM
freaklikeme
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #12 · digital rangefinder


It wouldn't surprise me if it was Sony, which might lead to some fine Zeiss glass. Very interesting. But how does it go from zero buzz to a pre/production copy in the hands of a professional wedding photographer? I don't know about you all, but I feel totally let down by the rumor mill.


Mar 30, 2010 at 07:31 PM
abam
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #13 · digital rangefinder


why would his credibility suffer, if he's pulling a joke on an accepted pranking day specifically for the purpose of showing companies other than leica that there might be a market for rangefinders that aren't for teeth-bleaching porsche cayenne driving wife-swappers?


Mar 30, 2010 at 10:21 PM
sirimiri
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #14 · digital rangefinder


Vienna and Los Angeles...not so different in the end, eh?

Seriously, though...somebody has to come out with an affordable, full-frame interchangeable "compact" of some sort...I beg you!
abam wrote:
...teeth-bleaching porsche cayenne driving wife-swappers?




Mar 31, 2010 at 12:18 AM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.4 #15 · digital rangefinder


sirimiri wrote:
Vienna and Los Angeles...not so different in the end, eh?

Seriously, though...somebody has to come out with an affordable, full-frame interchangeable "compact" of some sort...I beg you!



I think we would all love that, but I suspect the economics are such that you can choose two of those three, but not all three.

However, I think in the next decade we will see it. As high-ISO hits the limits, more and more cameras will flip to larger sensors to get more MP and relatively better high-ISO performance, and with volume, costs of the FF sensors will continue to drop until nearly everything is using some sort of FF sensor, and we will go to other criteria to segregate the men from the boys.



Mar 31, 2010 at 12:26 AM
apochromatic
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #16 · digital rangefinder


I keep my finger crossed


heck will the Contax G in digital come true !??!??!?!



Mar 31, 2010 at 01:00 AM
Spyro P.
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #17 · digital rangefinder


From memory, you couldnt manually focus a Contax G for peanuts, you could only pre/scale focus it. Also it had a silly AF mechanism where the lens was going back and forth before it settled to where you wanted it. No MF override, it was either AF or MF to a certain distance, the VF was nothing special in terms of brightness/size and it protruded in the back making the camera less compact than it could be. And it was nowhere near as quiet as a Leica.

However everything else was near perfect about this camera, great TTL metering, 4 fps, zooming VF, high shutter speed and ISO ratings, nice controls, decent flash and brilliant lenses. If they ever make a digital G and they keep the mount, these lenses' prices will go right through the roof.



Mar 31, 2010 at 01:11 AM
chrisnyee
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #18 · digital rangefinder


If this comes out for a reasonable price I may be very interested. Here's to hoping it isn't some April fools joke..


Mar 31, 2010 at 01:14 AM
edwardkaraa
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #19 · digital rangefinder


Stop dreaming guys. It's going to be a new system from Canon with a new mount. I don't see any indications it would be anything like what you're talking about. The good news is that it will probably take EF lenses via adapter so all ZE glass should be adaptable.


Mar 31, 2010 at 01:32 AM
Lotusm50
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #20 · digital rangefinder


Spyro P. wrote:
From memory, you couldnt manually focus a Contax G for peanuts, you could only pre/scale focus it. Also it had a silly AF mechanism where the lens was going back and forth before it settled to where you wanted it. No MF override, it was either AF or MF to a certain distance, the VF was nothing special in terms of brightness/size and it protruded in the back making the camera less compact than it could be. And it was nowhere near as quiet as a Leica.

However everything else was near perfect about this camera, great TTL metering, 4
...Show more


Having had A G2 for over a decade, I can tell you that you can indeed manually focus a Contax G2. In fact it is very easy, just different than you might be used to. You don't get split images to line up in the VF like a manual rangefinder, you get focus confirmation like you might get in a SLR. It works well as soon as you recognize and accept that you won't "see" the focus. You could set it to MF and it would focus to the distance set. Not sure what your issue is with it, it works just fine. Yes, the viewfinder was not exceptional in terms of brightness or size, but the VF zoomed to the focal length of the lens attached -- no frame lines to squint through. So in fact, depending on the lens used the actual usable viewfinder could actually be quite a bit larger than a Leica (especially if you used a 90mm lens). I while it wasn't a quiet as a Leica (what is?), it hard to accomplish that with a motor drive. It is, however, quite a bit quieter than an SLR, and quite a bit faster to use than a Leica. And as you suggest, everything else about it was just about perfect. Great ergonomics, easy to use, everything is where you expect it and falls nicely to the hand. Compact, light, yet felt solid and well made. While not an SLR, it had most of the features and conveniences of them that you might use most of the time. I would kill for a digital Contax G. Yes, AF needed improvements and would need to brought up to date now, but the completed but not produced G3 supposedly did just that )and who knows what else). As I suggested earlier, it would make a great platform for a digital AF rangefinder.

However, as Edward indicates, it probably going to be a Canon, and we'll have to suffer with its sucky user interface and uninspiring lenses. Although that 35/1.2 lens (Nokton?) does suggest that it might be a Cosina product...




Mar 31, 2010 at 01:57 AM
1       2       3              5       6       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              5       6       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account