fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              30              32              35       36       end
  

Archive 2010 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance

  
 
Emile Gregoire
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #1 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Anybody ever considered the obviously remote possibility that RG actually knows how to set-up a 1D type camera, after having worked closely with Canon engineers on numerous occasions, field-testing the MkIII? If he weren't capable of making sound decisions re. AF settings, Canon would have either taught him the basics or would have ignored him completely, but they kept on coming back to him. Hey, it's just a thought...


Feb 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM
Jeff
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #2 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


thedigitalbean wrote:
You're the one who brought up the value proposition of the D300s to the D3s, not me.


Breitling65 wrote:
Sorry but we are not here to play "You are first said" game as well as not right person been picked by you to play.


Aravind, I'm not sure it's worth engaging this one; I personally find it too mind-numbing to try and decipHer half the sentences he wrItes, Disregarding the fact that hE just likes to argue rhetorical points of MinutaE...

-Jeff



Feb 17, 2010 at 12:56 PM
SoundHound
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #3 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Gregoire: We are way too far into the Group Therapy thing for reasoned logic such as yours. It's really cruel to confuse and distract made-up-minds with lucid logic and reasoned discourse.


Feb 17, 2010 at 01:01 PM
John V
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #4 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Emile Gregoire wrote:
Anybody ever considered the obviously remote possibility that RG actually knows how to set-up a 1D type camera, after having worked closely with Canon engineers on numerous occasions, field-testing the MkIII? If he weren't capable of making sound decisions re. AF settings, Canon would have either taught him the basics or would have ignored him completely, but they kept on coming back to him. Hey, it's just a thought...


I have Emile...

And again, I have to point out again that i've only been using Canon Cameras since November (Late model 1d MkIII's), I had to try different settings that work best for me for different shooting conditions, the sports or subject matter i was shooting etc.
Since RG made an attempt at making or creating an in-depth review, or analysis of the Mark IV, i can't understand his reasoning not to try different settings for a given subject, particularly when he claims to have used 5 different bodies, from 5 different sources.



Feb 17, 2010 at 01:05 PM
Jeff
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #5 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Comically, 25 pages of discussing RG's methods as a reviewer has gotten us back to the same 'cure' for the MkIV as for the MkIII:

Don't use expansion points in some (many?) circumstances where they *should* be of value...

That's my biggest lingering problem with the MkIII is that I can't use the expansion points I paid for, in instances where they should theoretically help, i.e. where using a single point only is likely to lose the subject and require some help. Unfortunately, the help provided by the MkIII's AF system provides more hindrance to the goal of attaining adequate focus in marginal (sunny, backlit) conditions. I sincerely hope the MkIV has 45 usable focus points.

IMO those honestly suggesting that RG doesn't know what he is doing are misguided. Could he have used more objective words in his review? Certainly. Could he have tried your magical combination of CFn settings? Sure, maybe. However, reading between the lines of his misplaced sarcasm, I don't read that he panned the 1D MkIV at all. Even given my experiences with the MkIII, I'd not hesitate buying a MkIV (if I needed it) based upon his review, given my consideration of where he's coming from, historically speaking.

Yes, his 'approach' to this one could have been different, but you could all read between the lines a bit more and not accuse him of being an incompetent industry shill after many years of providing very competent reviews of high-end photographic equipment.

Regards,

Jeff



Feb 17, 2010 at 01:24 PM
thedigitalbean
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #6 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Jeff wrote:
Aravind, I'm not sure it's worth engaging this one; I personally find it too mind-numbing to try and decipHer half the sentences he wrItes, Disregarding the fact that hE just likes to argue rhetorical points of MinutaE...

-Jeff


Already done



Feb 17, 2010 at 01:27 PM
rhyder
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #7 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


"I can't use the expansion points I paid for" Nuff said..............


Feb 17, 2010 at 01:56 PM
ftemoto
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #8 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


This is the link to the Canon UK master class on shooting football[soccer] I referred to earlier. The settings section is in the Hardware and Software segment if you want to skip to it.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/masterclass/shooting_football.do



Feb 17, 2010 at 02:11 PM
M Vers
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #9 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


rhyder wrote:
"I can't use the expansion points I paid for" Nuff said..............


Now your just trolling...



Feb 17, 2010 at 02:12 PM
ftemoto
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #10 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


rhyder wrote:
"I can't use the expansion points I paid for" Nuff said..............


I have to confess, I don't quite get this. I mean, you can certainly use automatic selection and have them all available to you, or employ all 45 as expansion assist points. Isn't the point to have option that allow you to tailor different setting to different situations to get optimal results in those different situations? Why would you use expansion points if that's counterproductive in a given situation, or consider them "lost" to you if then optimal setting for a situation weighs against using them?



Feb 17, 2010 at 02:16 PM
ftemoto
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #11 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Emile Gregoire wrote:
Anybody ever considered the obviously remote possibility that RG actually knows how to set-up a 1D type camera, after having worked closely with Canon engineers on numerous occasions, field-testing the MkIII? If he weren't capable of making sound decisions re. AF settings, Canon would have either taught him the basics or would have ignored him completely, but they kept on coming back to him. Hey, it's just a thought...



There are already in this thread enough arguments that have cycled back around at least once, and I don't want to get sucked into one that's about who can set up a camera or not. I tried before to express great respect for RG; I think much of the ad hominem stuff directed at him in this thread is crap. I am sure he can set up a camera. And I mean no disrespect to him when I say I am sure I can set up a camera, too.

All I can go by is his report, which says:


We figured out early on that to get the camera to track as best it can, the EOS-1D Mark IV must be configured to use multiple AF points. This is a departure from any previous Canon 1-series SLR we've used. For example, if the camera is set to use a single AF point alone, the number of in-focus frames can be considerably lower than we've described in this article (for lower light tracking in particular it can be a wipeout). In addition, the frequency with which the camera will frontfocus increases and the camera's 10 fps frame rate will constantly slow,...Show more

So, unless I'm reading it wrong, he/they did some work on tracking and came up with settings that they used in all shooting situations with very few exceptions. I don't think that's the best use of this system and the flexibility it offers you, and that it invites some (not all) of the results he got. I sure as heck am going to be changing settings when I leave the soccer pitch and head out to the motocross track, and in fact several times at the track in different situations, because there are going to be different situations where optimal performance calls for different settings.

With almost a thousand frames through my MkIV in the last week, which I'm sure pales to the number of shots by two men with five cameras on a mission, all testing and almost all on soccer indoors and out, I'm certainly not of the impression that "The EOS-1D Mark IV's autofocus performance through [with] soccer was bizarre." The observations I made were to offer a perspective that is entirely aimed at offering additional information to help understand or use the camera, for what those observations are worth. If people want to make that a credibility test between RG's set up abilities and those of generic Fred Miranda drone shooter, then I guess I need to expect less of the board.



Feb 17, 2010 at 02:40 PM
Methodical
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #12 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


jkurkjia wrote:
1. Why, because your suggestion makes for a lousy controlled experiment...


With that said, would you then agree that the review would've eliminated doubts if he woud've provided a controlled test experimenting with different settings for all 5 cameras particularly with Cfn III-4? In other words, one set of tests with the default settings and then one set of tests with 1 selected etc. to show that he tested all or at least the Ai servo settings to hush the doubters. Where I come from, a review is suppose be thorough and if you are comparing it to another brand then it too must presented for comparison purposes...mono mono with identical settings...and not just referenced by written words to the other brand. I am very methodical and like to compare and analyze data to make the best decision. I think this review is missing some much needed ingredients.

I didn't read thru the entire thread because I can only imagine what's being said but I did read RGs review and these are 2 statements that grabbed my attention.

From RG:

"Switching C.Fn III-4 (AI Servo Tracking Method) from its default of C.Fn III-4-0 (Main Focus Point Priority) to C.Fn III-4-1 (Continuous AF Track Priority) served to do only one thing: make it more likely the EOS-1D Mark IV's AF system would begin tracking the background at just the wrong moment...

I'm no expert here, but doesn't Canon suggest Continuous Tracking for situations inwhich an object may cross the main object that way the AF system doesn't acquire focus on this new object but attempts to maintain focus on the object being tracked. Why would he use this setting knowing it would switch to the nearest object?

From RG:

The D3S is the best camera we've used to shoot speedskating, though there's also room for improvement.

First, it's hard to fairly compare any two cameras and their ability to track a skater rounding a corner, because the photographer's skill at keeping the AF point or group of points on the skater is as big a variable as the camera's AF system, particularly when shooting tight with a 400mm lens....

Yet he did. This statement can apply to any and all shooting situations, so although I look to these reviews, the only way to truly know is to test yourself. You may be a better shooter than the reviewer.

Another thing, why can't I find a similar AF test review of the Nikon D3s like that of the 1D4 for comparison purpose. He mentioned he did one of the D3s...where is it...does anyone know or have a link to it?



Feb 17, 2010 at 03:47 PM
scowl
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #13 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Methodical wrote:
Another thing, why can't I find a similar AF test review of the Nikon D3s like that of the 1D4 for comparison purpose. He mentioned he did one of the D3s...where is it...does anyone know or have a link to it?


Probably the same reason we never saw an AF test review of the 1D Mark II -- there were no obvious defects with it. Do you hear anyone complaining about the D3s AF? I sure don't.

If the 1D Mark III had clearly superior AF to the Mark II with no consistent problems, there wouldn't have been a review of its AF either. Galbraith would have just mentioned a paragraph or two about how good it is (like he did with the Mark II) and that would have been the end of it.



Feb 17, 2010 at 04:12 PM
Methodical
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #14 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Uhhhh...why would he not do an AF test of a new camera? I thought he tested different camera bodies as they hit the market. Is that not what he does?


scowl wrote:
...Do you hear anyone complaining about the D3s AF? I sure don't.

I don't know anyone with one, so no. But I have yet to see a similar grueling AF test done on this camera body either. ...why?



Feb 17, 2010 at 04:15 PM
Methodical
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #15 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


I agree and will sit back and see what comes back

Ron Hole wrote:
At the very least the weather proofing, specifically water sealing, will get a work out.




Feb 17, 2010 at 04:34 PM
Methodical
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #16 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Sounds like he's putting all his chips on the table here uhhh

rd4tile wrote:



Feb 17, 2010 at 04:40 PM
Methodical
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.31 #17 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


Maybe because he's sponsored by the their competitor and may fear proprietary data may be leaked.

Nill Toulme wrote:
To take this fascinating and elevated discussion in a slightly different direction, does anybody know why Canon, after having jumped through so many hoops with RG on the Mark III – meeting with him, flying in technicians and bodies for additional testing by and with him, etc. etc. etc. – didn't involve him in the pre-release testing of the Mark IV?

Nill




Feb 17, 2010 at 04:45 PM
M Vers
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #18 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


scowl wrote:
Probably the same reason we never saw an AF test review of the 1D Mark II -- there were no obvious defects with it. Do you hear anyone complaining about the D3s AF? I sure don't.


So in order for RG to publish a review the camera must have "obvious defects"? That is your logic?



Feb 17, 2010 at 04:49 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #19 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


I thought all this back and forth slinging was comical at about page 10. Now it is just sad.

Doesn't anyone every take anymore photos?



Feb 17, 2010 at 04:53 PM
John V
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.31 #20 · RG on 1D Mk IV autofocus performance


scowl wrote:
Probably the same reason we never saw an AF test review of the 1D Mark II -- there were no obvious defects with it. Do you hear anyone complaining about the D3s AF? I sure don't.

If the 1D Mark III had clearly superior AF to the Mark II with no consistent problems, there wouldn't have been a review of its AF either. Galbraith would have just mentioned a paragraph or two about how good it is (like he did with the Mark II) and that would have been the end of it.


Obvious defects?
By all accounts from beta testing from my readings, there weren't any obvious defects.



Feb 17, 2010 at 04:56 PM
1       2       3              30              32              35       36       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              30              32              35       36       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account