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Archive 2010 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2

  
 
JimBuchanan
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p.3 #1 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


cogitech wrote:
Richard,

I don't own any cameras with tiny pixel pitch (I only have 10D and 5D), but I have shown in the past some comparisons of two different Rokkors wide open on 5D. The results clearly illustrate significant sample variation. Maybe the difference would only be more dramatic on a higher resolving sensor... maybe not. I can post the two for comparison again, if anyone would like to see them.

Either way, I am quite certain than Hinnerker's sample represents the low end of the sample variation scale. As I said, of the 13 that I have used, only one produced results
...Show more


Here we go, again.

To start with, the Rokkor 58 is a favorite lens of mine, because of the cost/performance ratio. It has the halo effect, as any fast lens does wide open. It is worse, the brighter the scene is, as any fast lens. It is definitely optimized for infinity, with some IQ falloff at close range, and has focus shift at close range, just like most fast 50 lenses. The early ones have a loss of light throughput due to the aged glass (radioactive) and a color shift toward the warm side. And, I will repeat, this is a cost/performance leader in fast glass, in my opinion.

I have to discount the sample variability proposal. As stated in this thread, don't expect to get a good one, unless you spend untold time and energy and have the insight to seek out the exception to the ordinary rule, typically being old and ugly? I don't know about that. My thought is to simply target a good condition lens, and if color shift bothers you, get a more recent lens.

I acknowledge there are better lenses than others, but only to a more minor degree. I find the later and better condition lenses are the best in IQ, neutral color and speed. Mostly tampered with, and badly converted lenses perform more inadequately.

I currently have half a dozen Rokkor 58s waiting to be converted on my workbench. I will suggest as long as they are in good condition, they will all be very close in performance.



Feb 02, 2010 at 01:15 AM
cavewalker
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p.3 #2 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


systemlayers wrote:
I'm interested in a pentax 50 1.2 myself but there don't seem to be many posts with experiences...
Pictures on previous page seem to put in competition with the other 50 1.2s..but that's only one picture.


I just got a Pentax 1.2/50. Will compare it against the Rokkor soon...
some early samples all at f1.2 are here
It's the most contrasty 1.2 lens i ever had with very creamy bokeh and it's near halo free.



Feb 02, 2010 at 03:50 AM
Fat Dave
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p.3 #3 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


pascal03 wrote:
My rokkor 277xxxx serial number was very similar in performance to the samples shown by Cogitech... probably one of the best f1.2 lenses when used wide open and much better than some of the samples shown here that suggest otherwise. Then again, I am sure there may be better lenses out there - I have not tried any of the FD converted lenses.

I used mine on a 1Ds and 50D and it performed flawlessly to suit my needs


I would agree with Pascal03, particularly as I bought his old lens...

My scotch bottle tests show performance similar to what U.C. has demonstrated above - some "dreaminess" at that subject distance when wide open. But it still provides decent sharpness, and can be cleaned up nicely with some USM.

It is not the sharpest lens ever at f/1.2, and closer to MFD my model is probably at its worst. Moving back from ~1m to ~2m makes a notable difference in the sharpness.

It's definitely no slouch!

If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll post some crops from this lens on my 5D2.



Feb 02, 2010 at 04:46 AM
brainiac
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p.3 #4 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


So how do we reconcile the following 3 crops? Or is there no need? Get my point about processing and magnification? I think you might be able to get all these results from the very same copy.

http://dunkelnetz.de/images/best_of_2009/2009_best/can_mino3.jpg
http://ulrikft.smugmug.com/Photography/Lenstests/beer-bottle-crop/709725438_HArsD-O.jpg
http://tweakers.net/ext/f/b9vG4arlXaWwPvY3T0Sr2AVk/full.jpg

I am happier now that my Rokkor is on par. In other words, I think there's chance that the visible differences in performance between cog's lens and others may just come down to 13 Mpixels and Bibble.



Feb 02, 2010 at 06:38 AM
cogitech
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p.3 #5 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


brainiac wrote:
I think there's chance that the visible differences in performance between cog's lens and others may just come down to 13 Mpixels and Bibble.


Maybe. Just maybe.

Long live the 5D and Bibble.



Feb 02, 2010 at 07:38 AM
IDURITA
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p.3 #6 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


No idea about the rokkors, but I trust my Zuiko f/1.2 50mm, too.


Feb 02, 2010 at 08:23 AM
Fat Dave
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p.3 #7 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


I put up a quick comparison page here:

MC Rokkor quick test

Posted are some 100% center crops from the Rokkor versus my painfully sharp 85LII.

The images are just as shot - no post-processing of any kind has been applied (other than cropping the centre). The images were shot RAW, imported into LR, and exported with default settings as .jpg.



Feb 02, 2010 at 05:02 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #8 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


brainiac wrote:
So how do we reconcile the following 3 crops? Or is there no need? Get my point about processing and magnification? I think you might be able to get all these results from the very same copy.

I am happier now that my Rokkor is on par. In other words, I think there's chance that the visible differences in performance between cog's lens and others may just come down to 13 Mpixels and Bibble.


I might add to processing and magnification, that in my experience exposure and critical focus matter a lot too. As I have practiced with my Rokkor, I have learned not to expose as far to the right and I do with other lenses--doing so is to invite the haloing we see in the some the images here. I have also learned that getting critical focussing by focus bracketing makes a big difference too. Unless you nail focus the image won't be optimally sharp. So I wonder if the original poor image posted by Alf isn't a bit too exposed and if focus was really nailed. If either or both exposure or focus were a bit off, then I wouldn't be surprised by this image and my Rokkor can look like that too. If I get exposure and focus right, however, it is a lot better.



Feb 02, 2010 at 05:26 PM
cogitech
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p.3 #9 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


Fat Dave wrote:
I put up a quick comparison page here:

MC Rokkor quick test

Posted are some 100% center crops from the Rokkor versus my painfully sharp 85LII.

The images are just as shot - no post-processing of any kind has been applied (other than cropping the centre). The images were shot RAW, imported into LR, and exported with default settings as .jpg.


The focal plane is not parallel with the subject on the Rokkor shot, which makes me wonder if that medal is even in focus.

How many shots did you take at each aperture?

Did you use focus bracketing and then choose the best shot?

Did you re-focus after changing the aperture, or just stop-down and shoot? (The Rokkor has focus shift)

F2 should be far, far sharper than that. By f4, DoF is making up the focusing inconsistencies, IMO.

One thing is for certain, I surely prefer the Rokkor's colour and lack of CA as compared to the 85L.

Edited on Feb 02, 2010 at 07:44 PM · View previous versions



Feb 02, 2010 at 07:37 PM
cogitech
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p.3 #10 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


Steve Spencer wrote:
I might add to processing and magnification, that in my experience exposure and critical focus matter a lot too. As I have practiced with my Rokkor, I have learned not to expose as far to the right and I do with other lenses--doing so is to invite the haloing we see in the some the images here. I have also learned that getting critical focussing by focus bracketing makes a big difference too. Unless you nail focus the image won't be optimally sharp. So I wonder if the original poor image posted by Alf isn't a bit too exposed
...Show more

Very good points, Steve.

I always make the mistake of assuming that if someone is going to post test results, that they have taken all of this into consideration already.



Feb 02, 2010 at 07:39 PM
Fat Dave
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p.3 #11 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


I started at f/1.2, and focused using live view at 10x. Camera was fixed to a very sturdy and braced tripod, and the timer was used.

I stepped up from f/1.2 to take the other shots, and refocused before each shot. I then stepped back down to f/1.2, again refocusing before each shot.

The focal point is on the centre of that medal. The focal "plane" will be a notable arch at 24" distance, so the outer parts of the box will likely be outside the DOF.

I tried two different shots with the Rokkor at the initial distance, and then tried some subsequent shots. They were all very similar.

Remember that this is on a 5D2, so those crops represent about 1.7% of the overall photo. Also remember that it's compared against a lens that destroys every other lens I have ever tried in terms of sharpness.

And no sharpening has been applied - they clean up quite well.

I'll take some others with minute focus adjustments in each direction, but I'm fairly confident that the centre of the medal was brought to the absolute best focus available when I took the shots (in all examples).



Feb 02, 2010 at 07:55 PM
brainiac
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p.3 #12 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


cogitech wrote:
F2 should be far, far sharper than that.


This is with a 5D2; how do you know how much sharper it should be?



Feb 02, 2010 at 08:11 PM
brainiac
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p.3 #13 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


Fat Dave wrote:
I put up a quick comparison page here:

MC Rokkor quick test


Thanks for that Dave - very kind of you to shed some more light on this. Your results look to me to be very consistent with my Rokkor 58 and 85L2. The Canon is indeed absurdly sharp at f1.2 despite other imperfections, and the Rokkor is far from shamed by this comparison. It renders beautifully at f1.2 even though its sharpness doesn't fully satisfy 21 Mpixel cameras.

I do think that using 21 Mpixels gives a different view of a lens than 13 Mpixels. Differing absolute resolutions of sensors probably account for a lot of disagreement about lenses on this forum.

Maybe some Rokkors are 21 Mpixels sharp at f1.2, but we have yet to see a demonstration of that.



Feb 02, 2010 at 08:16 PM
Fat Dave
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p.3 #14 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


I've just done a whole new test round based upon the Rokkor at 48" distance, with comparisons to my 16-35L, 85L2 and 135L (at vastly different distances for similar framing).

I tried every trick in the book to get the Rokkor in as sharp a focus as it would allow.

I'll post these up to a new page as soon as I get them all cropped and exported.

This is not intended to be representative of ALL Rokkors, just mine and how it's currently performing on my body. It is also not intended to be a scientific study into the sharpness of lenses. It's just a quick setup to make some basic comparisons of my lenses on my camera with me focusing.

Obviously, your mileage may vary!



Feb 02, 2010 at 08:40 PM
cogitech
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p.3 #15 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


Thanks for clearing that up, Dave. I'm just puzzled about this performance, especially at f2. I've seen Rokkors that have some glowiness wide open, but by f2, every Rokkor I have used has been tack sharp.

If it is the 5DII that is causing the disparity in opinions here, then all the more reason why I really don't want a 5DII. I like my Rokkor images just the way they are, thanks



Feb 02, 2010 at 09:15 PM
brainiac
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p.3 #16 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


cogitech wrote:
If it is the 5DII that is causing the disparity in opinions here, then all the more reason why I really don't want a 5DII. I like my Rokkor images just the way they are, thanks


Just in case anyone is misled by your joke, your Rokkor images would remain just the way they are because a 5D2 can only gather more sharpness from you Rokkor than your 5D, if there is more. It won't make your Rokkor images less sharp. I know you knew that, but someone reading your comment might not realise that you didn't mean what you said.



Feb 02, 2010 at 09:25 PM
Fat Dave
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p.3 #17 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


Okay, second test posted up below:

Rokkor Test 2



Feb 02, 2010 at 09:26 PM
cogitech
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p.3 #18 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


Richard,

I'll risk being the idiot here and admit that I did mean it.

To change gears here a bit, here's the Rokkor wide open on my 5D in a completely different (and more "real world", to me, at least) situation:

http://www.cogitech.ca/photos/Rokkor/img_0035_1a.jpg

And a 100% crop:
http://www.cogitech.ca/photos/Rokkor/img_0035_crop.jpg



Feb 02, 2010 at 09:29 PM
Fat Dave
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p.3 #19 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


At the distance in this second test (4 feet), I think the Rokkor performs well. Further back, things may improve even more, but I have yet to test that.

The RAW images from the wide open shots do need to be sharpened up, add a little contrast tweak as well, and the results perk up notably.

At 2.0 it's pretty much a dead heat between the Rokkor and my (also comparatively sharp) 135L.

By f/4.0 it equals or bests them all - less CA with the Rokkor, and sharpness, contrast, saturation etc are all very good.

I have no other 50-58mm lenses to test it against at this time, but I'll keep collecting and see how it goes!



Feb 02, 2010 at 09:38 PM
tootalew
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p.3 #20 · Interesting f1.2 comparison, Rokkor 58/1.2 vs FD 55/1.2


We could go the other way, and do the test on a 1D classic, I bet the Rokkor is then just as sharp as the 85L


Feb 03, 2010 at 02:03 AM
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