yeah I personally am going to have to write the Einsteins off...I'm sure they will eventually be available, but too many other vendors have great products available now...I can't rely on concept products for my business...our studio uses a bunch of AB stuff...personally don't like it as much as other brands, but they do get the job done...the Einsteins would have made a nice addition, but the way the product has been handled by the company leaves a very bad taste in my mouth...not a company I want to continue to deal with.
I guess all those waiting don't really need strobes or are waiting for the panacea? Most of us who have inferior Elinchrom, Profoto, etc., equipment continue to struggle everyday trying to make a decent picture with it.
photomarvin wrote:
..., but too many other vendors have great products available now...I can't rely on concept products for my business...our studio uses a bunch of AB stuff...personally don't like it as much as other brands, but they do get the job done...the Einsteins would have made a nice addition, but the way the product has been handled by the company leaves a very bad taste in my mouth...not a company I want to continue to deal with.
NOT specifically @ photomarvin:
The ONLY difference with PBC is that he opened his mouth too early as to what their plans were. Other companies say nothing until the product is sitting on the docks darn near ready to ship. If PBC had not said a word and did as other companies the folks here would be happy when the real deal appeard and not always complaining about inevitable delays that take place within companies. Look at this way, PBC is difference in the sense that Paul is sharing the 'internal memos' with external readers (eg, folks on this forum). Paul is giving way too much credit to the general public for understanding how business/life works (especially manufacturing). Most people don't have a clue and think every reason provided is an excuse. He owes us nothing!
Just think if our governments shared information on the daily dangers we face. Do you really think people will be able to handle the truths?
If you were foolish enough to sell working gear for anticipated gear I suggest you take a class on business....even if you only shoot for pleasure. This goes for any product you own....photography or not.
cordellwillis - I can appreciate a lot of what you say. But I see this as a trend with this company which leaves me not wanting to deal with them. I know a lot of people love Paul Buff and his products...our studio has tons of his stuff (not by my choice) but I use it almost every day. How long has stuff been on backorder? How many updates have we been given about the Einstein and then just get excuse after excuse?
What he has shared is that he really wanted to get a cool product to market and hasn't delivered. Yes, I don't have a true understanding of everything he has dealt with on the project...but that is not my role...I'm a consumer. And I'm going to put my money on companies that can deliver the goods.
You guys have no patience nor understanding. This New Upcoming product will ship when its done.
Has any body been on a hardware or software design team? Done any System Engineering, Product Management, or Quality Assurance? These types of design slips and time lines are nothing out of the ordinary. PCB's posts and such (might we well be a blog) is practically insider information to me. What other lighting manufacturer does this in todays information age? Its interesting IMHO.
Let them finish their QA test plans.
FYI on Preorders "When we are <ready to ship> we will contact you via email and you may then place the order via phone or our shopping cart. If you then order by shopping cart, write "pre–order" in the special instructions and we will find you and expedite your order. If you order by phone just tell us you are on the pre–order list. If we don't hear from you within 5 business days of our <notification>, your name will drop off the pre–order list." http://www.paulcbuff.com/einstein/preorder.html
I guess that is what bothers me...that the story keeps changing...excuse after excuse and totally beyond his control...like his company has nothing to do with the fact that a product was going to be released months ago and still hasn't been.
I'm no longer going to buy into the Paul Buff brand but that is my personal decision. I do hope he is able to bring the product to the consumer and that is as incredible as it is on paper.
Yup Its just like the HOBD list I was on. Get yourself on the list. "When its done" they call / email and you order and its shipped. Its simple. Has any end user been charged for an Einstien? Id then understand frustration. Who put up front venture capital for this project?
You do not get charged to be on the list otherwise people would truly be howling in protest. People who were on the list for ABMax get priority. I forget what that number is. Something like 800(units I think not people)? Not all of whom would still be interested I would imagine.
Paul has mentioned numerous times he has put in a little over $2 million into development. How it was financed he has not said and frankly is his business. Reading between the lines he is obviously concerned about making sure he gets it right because of the money spent to get this to market which makes it all the more certain this will be released eventually considering the money that was probably sunk into Einstein and ABMax.. He has been saying since at least December that he has been playing with a fully working model but he continues to tweak it.
It could be supplier problems have forced changes in components leading to the need for more testing. He could be worried about unforeseen issues necessitating expensive fixes after production and shipments begin. Could be both. He has already suggested the price will be going up as component costs are higher than anticipated. If margins are tight then there is little room for error possibly leading to additional delays from extra testing. Good for end-users are hopefully there will be fewer issues.
Let's not forget this is a small company. Loss of a key employee can have big consequences. Product launches can be a make or break proposition because they may not be able to recover from a bad product launch.
If you are a hobbyist this should not be a big deal. You can wait. If you are business, you simply have to get ABs, WLs or go elsewhere. I'm sure Paul is well aware that the longer this goes on the more orders he may lose and his credibility will suffer. He also has to look at the negatives from a premature launch.
All of this should be obvious. I think it's great to know exactly where things stand. If there is any criticism to be made I would say he was probably too optimistic with his availability date. In Dec, he said he could have made the end of Dec deadline if not for the holidays. With all the testing still seeming to go on that seems to have been unrealistic. Again though maybe it was due to component changes.
The updated PLMs were supposed to be ready mid-December as well. Maybe since all of this stuff is coming from China, and Chinese New Year was just last week, they really aren't that behind at all. February 14 is the new Jani. 1?
though i understand the frustration of having delays and longer waiting, ive gotta say that i find PCB Co. refreshingly open and honest about whats going on. at least they give a reason.
im waiting for a certain wireless sd card to ship. there seem to have been several delays and missed dates. why? i dont know. their lips seem sealed.
of course its a no win for anyone when dates are missed. if a company says why, people arent happy and call any reason they have just "an excuse".
if a company doesnt say anything at all, well that just leaves a bad taste in the mouths of others.
darned if you do, darned if you dont
ps...i cant wait to see what the new PLMs look like
The real point was made a couple of posts ago - First, had PCB not said a word we'd all be happy. And second, and other companies do exactly that, namely, until the product is shipping they keep their mouths shut. I've done software development for years and also watched several small companies in the high-end audio arena do their development, and without fail those who talk too soon always regret it. Last minute things always happen, schedules always change, specs always undergo last minute revisions. That's the nature of product development. Smart companies learn that lesson early, and when they do learn it the hard wway they acknowledge that they made a mistake in overcommunicating, take it like a man and apologise to what remains of their customer base. After learning that they talked too much and too soon they go back to the design room, and make the product better than they thought it could be and release it quietly and let it speak for itself this time. That rebuilds trust and (usually) the customer base as well.
Yes, could be a case of over communicating to the wrong crowd. Like telling your kid your going to take him or her to Disney Land this Summer. Time comes around and no Disney Land for whatever reason. They arent going to stop asking and whining whatever the reason or ahem excuse.
I happen to like PCB's style lately with the information on his website. The power supply design change was disappointing but that's Murphy. I'm still getting two or three of em with Cyber commander. However, I find myself looking at Cyber commander threads for user experiences and if there is any initial software showstoppers with that controller. Love the Cybersyncs though!
Mardel - I think it's a basic case of over promising under delivering...something I would never do to my clients and would expect a business to not to do its customers
Here's the other scenario Paul Buff has mentioned. People buy something from him and find out a few months later that something better just came out. Then they just feel ripped off for not knowing. At least he's open so that everyone can make an informed decision. I'm not feeling sorry for anyone who sold their equipment planning on buying these right away. You just don't do something stupid like that. His openness is something you don't see anymore. You can complain about things and that's how this "instant gratification" north American society is but I'd rather wait for an industry breaking standard to turn out the way it is supposed to instead of something that doesn't function correctly.
