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Archive 2009 · Mac/PC debate

n0b0
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p.7 #1 · Mac/PC debate

PC for the overclocking + water cooling, can't beat the performance to price ratio. Gaming is another reason.

Pavel wrote:
If you don't "get" what a Mac is about ... don't get one. Just like folks think Canon is better - and they are when you look at the specs. I mean you can get a 21 megapixel camera for the price of a 12 megapixel Nikon. What kind of idiot would buy the Nikon? I mean ... get real. Canon has so much more bang for the buck.

Of course there are those who care about little subtleties. Weirdos! ... And windows 7 is very much like Canon flash. When you are used to suffering any improvement seems like mana...Show more →

And Mac users are very much like Nikon users, the vocal minority whom are very sensitive about their fave product and therefore feel the need to put other products down just to maintain the illusion of superiority.

Nov 06, 2009 at 09:05 AM

DaveEP
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p.7 #2 · Mac/PC debate

Andre Labonte wrote:
People who pay for designer clothes, cars, computers, furniture, etc. pay through the nose for an image. A fake image IMO, but an image none-the-less. I'm a down to earth guy, give me something that works and is flexible and is comfortable to use and does not cost too much, and I'll use that extra money for something more important and fun than maintaining an image.

But then again, I'm the kind of guy who buys mini-vans and pickup trucks because those are practical vehicles. Sports cars and luxury, while fun to look at and drive, are a waste...Show more →

That's a very good way to be - but even your mini-van is pre-built right ?

Calling a Mac a 'designer' computer is going too far in my opinion. It's a nice 'design', but that's all it is - a design - just like any PC out there. Because something looks better than something else does not make it 'designer' or 'over priced'. As has been experienced by many people, a Mac can work out cheaper - and still look better (from some people's point of view). Personally I don't much care what it looks like as long as it does the job.

Another situation is where people make their own clothes. Some do it because they enjoy it, some do it because they can't get off-the-shelf clothes to fit them, but the vast majority of us buy off-the-shelf clothes and don't even think twice. In this respect the PC market is almost unique, because so many people (almost exclusively men) like to tinker with gadgets they think it's the right thing to do and don't understand why people buy off-the-shelf, but these same people buy "everything else" off-the-shelf. Each to his own

Nov 06, 2009 at 09:17 AM

Milan Hutera
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p.7 #3 · Mac/PC debate

I love the iMac design. Really beautiful and practical solution. One question though (very relevant for photographers) - does the iMac monitor still use that sh*tty 6-bit TN technology that only displays 262000 colors?

Nov 06, 2009 at 09:53 AM

luminosity
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p.7 #4 · Mac/PC debate

All the 24/27 inch screens are millions of colors. I think it was just the low-end iMacs that didn't have them.

Nov 06, 2009 at 10:06 AM

Silenus
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p.7 #5 · Mac/PC debate

In my opionion there are only two reasons to get a Mac. 1) The slick exterior design, 2) The Mac OS. Granted the Mac OS is big reason for a lot of people. However, lets not get caught up in any 'performance' differences. The days of hardware differences are long gone. Macs and PC's are really all the same on the inside.

I personally have always built my own and tweaked or overclocked or modded cases. That's just part of what I like to do. So PC's are it for me. Because I have experience with PC and Windows I never have any of the 'problems' that seem to plague so many. These problems that slow down windows machines are almost universally a combination of tons of extraneous bits of software or malware that users have "allowed" to be installed, simply due to inexperience. That's doesn't happen to me. I don't get viruses and malware, and I don't run ANY antivrus software...simply because I don't do anything with my machine to put it at risk. I set it up. It runs and I have no trouble. But I also understand people that don't have that experience and want a hands-off machine that requires little user intervention. Then a Mac is great for them.

If you want to talk about REAL differences between computers, it's not Mac vs. PC..... its about traditional hard drive VS. SSD's. THAT is where it's at now! If you really want to be blown away by the overall "performance" of a computer, run a good quality SSD (Intel X25-M or any of the Indillix controller based drives). If you haven't you can't imagine the difference it makes. There is no single component in a system that will make as big a difference. Sacrifice CPU and memory speed for it if you need to. It will make more of a difference to your usage experience by far. SSD's are rapidly changing from luxury to necessity. Trust me on this folks!

Nov 06, 2009 at 10:41 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.7 #6 · Mac/PC debate

^^^^ +1 to the SSD. But dang the price hurts. So, how do you configure it? Do you put all OS and apps on the SSD and userfiles on a standard HD?

Nov 06, 2009 at 11:49 AM

NightOwl Cat
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p.7 #7 · Mac/PC debate

Ok Michael, I went to a place here in Ohio that builds them, and also supports them, so when you call tech support, it's US Based

Since you're planning on getting a monitor separate, I didn't include it in my configurations.

Systemax PC http://www.systemaxpc.com then choose desktops:

Systemax Ascent A790 Build-to-Order Desktop PC - genuine Windows� 7 operating system, 780G chipset, micro or mid tower case, choice of options and upgrades

Here's the link to the machine itself:
http://www.productshippingcenter.com/applications/searchtools/configdetails.asp?Base=5307867

and the choices I selected:
$1321.98 with no monitor since you have your eye on a different one, and with the warranty extended 3 more years for a total of 4, subtract 119.99 if you want to forgo that

Select Operating System
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64bit (Add $35.00)

Select Chassis
SYX Mid-Tower ATX Chassis (Add $10.00)

Select Power Supply
500 Watt Power Supply (Add $15.00)

Socket AM2 / AM2+
Asus M3A78-EM Motherboard with HD Audio

Select Processor
AMD Phenom II X4 945 3.0GHz Quad Core Processor (Add $145.00)

Select Memory
8GB DDR2 PC6400 800MHz Memory (2GB x 4) (Add $120.00)

Select Hard Drive
1TB 3G SATA II Hard Drive (Add $40.00)

Select Second Hard Drive
1TB 3G SATA II Hard Drive (Add $80.00)

Select Optical Drive
22X Lightscribe DVDRW + 22X DVDRW SATA Drives (Add $30.00)

Select 3.5" Drive Device
9-in-1 Card Reader USB2 Black (Add $8.00)
Supports SmartMedia, SD/MMC, CompactFlash I/II, MS/MS PRO

Select Video
ATI Radeon HD4650 1GB PCIe (1DVI / 1VGA / 1HDMI) (Add $70.00)

Select Monitor
No Monitor Selected

Select Network Communication Device
Wireless N PCI Network Adapter (Add $20.00)

Select Keyboard
Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop KB/Mouse USB (Add $20.00)

Select Input Device
Microsoft Basic USB Optical Mouse Black

Select Speakers
No Speakers Selected

Select Power Protection
Ultra 1000VA 600 Watt UPS (Add $109.00)

Select Microsoft Office Application
Microsoft Office Ready Pro 2007/60-Day Free Trial

Select Warranty
1 Year Parts & Labor Warranty
2 Yr Extended Desktop/Server Warranty (3 Yr Total) (Add $79.99)
3 Yr Extended Desktop/Server Warranty (4 Yr Total) (Add $119.99) <-- chose that.

3 Year Desktop/Server Warranty + Onsite Service (Add $139.99)
Onsite Service Option Not Valid in CA, CO, ME, MI, NJ, NY, NC, and PA

4 Yr Extended Desktop/Server Warranty (5 Yr Total) (Add $189.99)

4 Year Desktop/Server Warranty + Onsite Service (Add $199.99)
Onsite Service Option Not Valid in CA, CO, ME, MI, NJ, NY, NC, and PA

5 Year Desktop/Server Warranty + Onsite Service (Add $329.99)
Onsite Service Option Not Valid in CA, CO, ME, MI, NJ, NY, NC, and PA

Firewire Adapters
Integrated Firewire

Select Antivirus
CA Internet Security Suite Plus 2010 30-day Trial

MichaelKirk wrote:
and my post shows my computer ignorance. but for anyone that has read the entire thread - I'm pretty much a computer idiot much like a high percentage of users out there. My previous post ask more about not building a system ones self, but more about "ordering" a system where they build it for you.

So my questions should have been better stated asking about a comparable PC system to the iMac that someone builds for you such as the HP Z400 or I saw this one posted in a different FM thread:
http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_configurator.asp?PRID=14884

I tell you, buying a new computer system...Show more →

Nov 06, 2009 at 12:13 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.7 #8 · Mac/PC debate

I'm not sure I would go AMD. I'd go I7 myself, and that means a larger power supply too (watch that the individual rails are large enough, not just the over-all power). As for the SSD, it will boost performance but at a price. Also, I'm not convined yet of their reliability as far as data retention. I'll stick with 7200 rpm SATA II drives for now.

Nov 06, 2009 at 12:47 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.7 #9 · Mac/PC debate

For anyone interested. Here is a nice, pre-built box from HP for a great price ($1100.00)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147039

It includes keyboard & mouse. You have to supply the monitor and speakers.

Nov 06, 2009 at 02:51 PM

snitramc
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p.7 #10 · Mac/PC debate

If the only difference between Mac and PC is the OS, then just build a PC and load OSx86 onto it. Then you have a Mac for half the price. As far as the box being sexy? Yawn. I work with the lights way down anyways. I prefer to look at my images, not my computer.

Nov 06, 2009 at 03:11 PM

Avi B
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p.7 #11 · Mac/PC debate

Wait, but you can't!! Mr Jobs et al won't let you load the OS onto non-Mac hardware - legally at least.

And NightOwl Cat, I managed 633 myself. That was using QEMM's hi-memory manager.

Nov 06, 2009 at 03:18 PM

Silenus
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p.7 #12 · Mac/PC debate

I'd actually love to build a "hackintosh." If I could try the mac OS but still be able to build my own hardware, I'd be all for that. I know people do it I just haven't sat down and tried it.

@Andre - If SSD's were affordable to ALL my storage space I'd use them in a heartbeat, for reliability reasons as well as speed. I'd bet my money on the reliability over a platter based drive. This is assuming a good quality drive such as the Intel's. As for the performance at a price...yes it is! But I argue that even right now, it is WORTH the price.

As prices drop and capacity increases over the next year or two it will just get better.

Nov 06, 2009 at 03:41 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.7 #13 · Mac/PC debate

Silenus wrote:
I'd actually love to build a "hackintosh." If I could try the mac OS but still be able to build my own hardware, I'd be all for that. I know people do it I just haven't sat down and tried it.

@Andre - If SSD's were affordable to ALL my storage space I'd use them in a heartbeat, for reliability reasons as well as speed. I'd bet my money on the reliability over a platter based drive. This is assuming a good quality drive such as the Intel's. As for the performance at a price...yes it is! But I argue that...Show more →

+1 on the "hackintosh" if it were legal. I refuse to run any pirated or illegal software on my computers. I would build a dual-boot box in a second if I could buy the Apple OS seperately ... just to test it out more completely.

As for the SSD, I have not heard such good reports on their bit integrity, especially over time. Total failure, like we get with the platter based drives wearing out, is most likely better with SSD, but individual bits can be lost more easily with the SSD drives. SSD drives more susceptible to outside magnetic and static issues. Maybe they have fixed that since I last read about it .... time for me to do some homework.

For sure, I would be willing to spend the money on SSD for the performance on the applications drive if the reliability is there. I think for long-term mass storage of files, the old magnetic platters are the cost effective solution, especially when talking about redundant backups.

Nov 06, 2009 at 05:02 PM

patrickphoto
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p.7 #14 · Mac/PC debate

no need to upgrade LR, and believe the same is true for PS. Just go online to your adobe account and both platform downloads are available.

Nov 06, 2009 at 05:09 PM

Silenus
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p.7 #15 · Mac/PC debate

Andre Labonte wrote:
+1 on the "hackintosh" if it were legal. I refuse to run any pirated or illegal software on my computers. I would build a dual-boot box in a second if I could buy the Apple OS seperately ... just to test it out more completely.

As for the SSD, I have not heard such good reports on their bit integrity, especially over time. Total failure, like we get with the platter based drives wearing out, is most likely better with SSD, but individual bits can be lost more easily with the SSD drives. SSD drives more susceptible to outside magnetic...Show more →

For mass storage of data and backup...yes certainly hard drives are the only financially feasible way to go right now. SSD for just OS/app drive makes sense. Consider that some of the first SSD's available from Intel, the X25-E extreme series, were targeted at enterprise server applications such as high speed databases. If the reliability wasn't there they wouldn't such a big hit in that environment. The earliest SSD's out on the market WERE terrible and not worth it. That may have spoiled the initial impression many got. They are rapidly getting better however. This is why I always try to put the caveat of a "quality" SSD in my comments.

There is no harm in waiting though.

The longer you wait the better deal you'll get. Over the course of 2010 you will see SSD's pick up a lot steam and even more performance. Capacities will likely at least double for the same price points they are now.

Nov 06, 2009 at 05:19 PM

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