UCSB wrote:
Lots of possible explanations for these problems. But, I would say that Ian's comments on micro adjustment seem to indicate that he is either using a faulty process or his camera is faulty. Here is a solid process:
I would revisit that first. If you can not get solid lens calibrations following this procedure, your camera needs calibration.
Finally, this comment is not directed at Ian, but just my personal thoughts on the 7D AF. I doubt if 1 out of 10 owners will ever understand what it is doing and how to use it correctly. Everyone has wanted a professional sophisticated AF system ... well the flip side of that is going to be learning how to use it.
I have owned two 7Ds now and BOTH have had focus problems. The first one made everything soft. The second one wont focus lock on anything at 200mm or higher.
So far I have read that Canon does not even want the lenses from people sending their cameras in for focus issues. One person a few days ago said Canon accepted the repair and they were going to do some type of an adjustment. It may have been here.
I just read not 5 minutes ago at DPR that a fellow sent in his 7D and two lenses for back or front focusing beyond what MFA can correct. He got it back and Canon told him his lenses were fine and they did and electrical adjustment to the camera. He did not understand the explanation. They probably did that on purpose. The image of his mom was tack sharp.
IMO their are issues out there that are not all pilot error however I think we will find these are minor and easily correctable. There are just too may great images showing up for this to be a design issue. The image of his mom was tack sharp.
OK, so I've now read almost this entire thread. I sold my (very crisp) 40d to finance the new 7d and almost immediately found the images to be soft. I figured it was me and the new camera and tried just about everything (MA, Noise reduction settings, focus modes, etc). I even updated the firmware when it became available, to no avail. However the issue didn't seem to be a focus issue, but rather a general softness of all images - no area of the photos are sharp, just less out of focus.
After 2 weeks and a few hundred shots (mostly test shots), I gave up and called Canon. I shipped it to NJ last Saturday, requesting a replacement and should have something back tomorrow. I included about 15 examples of photos that were representative of the problem, all taken with either the 24-105L or the 70-200 2.8 IS L. To be honest, I'm hoping it is a new copy all together, but most of all I'm hoping I can again enjoy taking great photos. I'll post an update with the verdict as soon as I can - please keep you fingers crossed
RichM-NH wrote:
OK, so I've now read almost this entire thread. I sold my (very crisp) 40d to finance the new 7d and almost immediately found the images to be soft. I figured it was me and the new camera and tried just about everything (MA, Noise reduction settings, focus modes, etc). I even updated the firmware when it became available, to no avail. However the issue didn't seem to be a focus issue, but rather a general softness of all images - no area of the photos are sharp, just less out of focus.
After 2 weeks and a few hundred shots (mostly test shots), I gave up and called Canon. I shipped it to NJ last Saturday, requesting a replacement and should have something back tomorrow. I included about 15 examples of photos that were representative of the problem, all taken with either the 24-105L or the 70-200 2.8 IS L. To be honest, I'm hoping it is a new copy all together, but most of all I'm hoping I can again enjoy taking great photos. I'll post an update with the verdict as soon as I can - please keep you fingers crossed ...Show more →
Did you judge softness at 100% view? That might be the problem. With so many more pixels it's going to look "softer" but it's just the nature of the beast. Looking at 100% on the 7D results in you looking at a much smaller part of any image. If you take a moment to think about it any smaller part of an image will typically have less to show and as a result people could feel there's less sharpness. This is due to sharpness being a perception of contrast. A small section of say a plastic toy is going to have mostly the same colors which results in less contrast and so you feel it's less sharp.
The other side is with so many more pixels you need to apply more sharpening or apply it over more pixels. Again this is due to the zoom effect. Smaller area less changes between pixels. So if you use the same sharpening at a 40D you'll get less sharpening because there's less transition to work with. Making the sharpening over a wider radius might help or increasing the level of sharpening.
The 40D has served me well and the auto-focus even though a bit slower has done a good job. I took the 7D anxiously to try it out and see if the results will speak for themselves. Okay I am not a pro but I learn with practice and patience and after two days I noticed especially after shooting buildings from a distance I see some kind of smear on the images sharpness isn't there like the 40D and no matter what I do I cannot match it to the 40D images, the edges of the buildings look jagged not straight and the overall look of the image lacks luster. It looks a bit muddy and when enlarging at 100% it looks a bit grainy even at lower speeds.
I compared the images side by side w/the 40D and on the 40D sharpness exceeded.
I expected extremely better results especially after reading some of the people experiences, and I tried to shoot even on the full program and I do not see anything better than the 40D. Maybe I have a bad camera?
I certainly love the built and all the features in the camera but at the end if the final image isn't comparable I feel what is the use? I shot images using the 70-200 f4L Canon lens and I am not seeing results I had before with the 40D. I had the camera for about a week now. I am wondering if some batches of the sensors perhaps are faulty? This is a new chip from Canon right? I will send this one back and hope they can help me assess the problem I want things to work on this camera.
If anyone has similar experiences with the camera as of what I wrote I would appreciate a feedback.
corndog wrote:
Ultimately we will never know if these guys are having problems due to user error, and the new cameras work because the custom menu's haven't been molested to death while trying to fix something that isn't wrong. Seriously, we will never know.
a) There are early copies of 7D which are badly miscalibrated out of factory. I received one of those and waited 1.5 months before I got a replacement which worked great from the outset.
b) Allowing the 7D to choose its own AF point simply does NOT work. I do not know what's wrong with the 7D algorithm.
"The bad thing is many, many people... made blanket statements like “I had to try 3 copies before I found one that was calibrated right”. In reality what they should have said was “I had to try 3 copies before I found one that was calibrated right FOR MY CAMERA”. Those other two copies might well have been fine on someone else’s camera."
IOW, the AF calibration of each lens must MATCH the camera.
Did any one else notice how large the mirror is in the 7D? I had already sold my 50D when mine arrived but my initial impression was that the mirror was much larger than the XXD series. I have to wonder with the mirror size and high MP if the sensor adjustment specs aren't hyper critical. I've seen numerous people now that have sent their copt back to Canon state that the paperwork indicated adjustments but were non-specific. In almost every case their images were vastly improved after service.
I think it should be quite apparent by now that this is not a user error or lens calibration issue. After two trips into Canon service, my 7D could still not Zone or Auto Select AF consistently.
If yours doesn't focus consistently and properly in ALL modes, exchange it or send it in to Canon for service. There aren't any top secret/rocket science settings on the camera that are even capable of causing this. And your lenses don't have to be calibrated for your camera. So don't blame your them, especially if they worked just fine on other bodies as mine do.
alundeb wrote:
I hope you got enough shots in focus to save the event.
1) Thanks for your concern; yes, I took alternates of these photos on my 5D2's, because I am a Canon shooter, and therefore I don't trust my gear.
2) This camera had already been back to Canon for focussing inconsistency, and was given a clean bill of health.
3) Canon does not provide a manual focus wysiwyg screen for this camera, so the fake depth of field provided by the stock screen means that significant focus failure can easily go unnoticed until you get home.
4) I have just exchanged my 7D for a new one, to see if this one can perform the simple function of focussing automatically, a crucial feature since no useful manual focus screen is available.
It's been a while, brainiac.
Yes - it has. Please email me if you wish to know why I am no longer contributing regularly to this site, since talking openly about it here is liable to get me banned.
"The bad thing is many, many people... made blanket statements like “I had to try 3 copies before I found one that was calibrated right”. In reality what they should have said was “I had to try 3 copies before I found one that was calibrated right FOR MY CAMERA”. Those other two copies might well have been fine on someone else’s camera."
IOW, the AF calibration of each lens must MATCH the camera.
...or in the real world, the AF calibration of each lens focal length must MATCH each selectable AF point (which is not supported by current versions of AF microadjust). For example, my ex-7D's leftmost AF point does not agree with the central or rightmost. And we've all heard about zooms whose short and long ends produce different calibration results. Shoddy calibration in all dimensions leads to many failure modes and cumulative failure. We customers should not be having to deal with this. Bring back accurate geometry.
I just got my new 7D this week and was also disappointed in the image sharpness. I have two L-series lenses, a 70-200 f/2.8 L IS and a 24-105 f/4 L IS. Both lenses are tack sharp on my XTi but not so on the 7D. I also tested using MF and still got soft photos. I'm really distraught over this, I saved for six months to buy this camera. I'm not sure what steps to take now and I'm wondering whether returning the 7D to B&H is a good idea. I love everything about the 7D except the end result: THE IMAGES!! Any suggestions are appreciated.
spectraflash wrote:
I just got my new 7D this week and was also disappointed in the image sharpness. I have two L-series lenses, a 70-200 f/2.8 L IS and a 24-105 f/4 L IS. Both lenses are tack sharp on my XTi but not so on the 7D. I also tested using MF and still got soft photos. I'm really distraught over this, I saved for six months to buy this camera. I'm not sure what steps to take now and I'm wondering whether returning the 7D to B&H is a good idea. I love everything about the 7D except the end result: THE IMAGES!! Any suggestions are appreciated....Show more →
Mine focuses nice near MFD.
At say less then 5-10m distance it takes an MA of +18 to work. That is it get´s the focus right in 3 of 4 shots. Even when on a tripod it sometimes changes to badly oof when repeatedly half-pressing the shutter even on an good target. Switching to servo-af shows really nervous behaviour in the same situation.
Near infinity an MA of +18 definitely doesn´t work.
edit: all this with single af-point in the middle
It think there is some influence wether you shoot in daylight or artifical lighting.
I dont´t have the nerve to experiment it to death.
By the way it went to Canon Service for that reason and came back worse than before. The remark of the technician was somewhat funny "We tried our best".
At least they managed to optimize the 17-55 significantly.
I won´t send it in again until i hear they have a calibration software for the 7D wich is still not the case to my knowledge.
p.s.
My 85 1.8 and 50 1.4 wich didn´t work very well on my former 50D are near perfect now. The 70-200 f4 IS was/is very good on both. The 135 f2 was flawless on 50D and a little more inconsistent on 7D.
sigh
