Exactly. I started to believe that some dismiss the results of DxO tests because they do not want their own subjective evaluations challenged. I always love reading "I make my own evaluation and this is what counts for me"
mfurman wrote:
Exactly. I started to believe that some dismiss the results of DxO tests because they do not want their own subjective evaluations challenged. I always love reading "I make my own evaluation and this is what counts for me"
Here is the default SNR comparison that DxOMark loads when your average photographer looks for a comparison between D700 and 5Dmk2. It even says under the graph "The signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) indicates how much noise is present in an image, compared to the actual information (signal)". Please point out to me where it explains that this graph is the equivalent of cropping 12 Mpixels from the 5D2 frame and comparing that cropped image to the whole D700 frame. http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/dxosux.jpg
Please note, that this is what DxO shows you by default, without any explanation of why it is a gross falsehood. More to the point, what is the purpose of this graph? What does it actually show you? It compares a crop from one camera against the whole frame of another, where both cameras have the same size of sensor. This misleading graph just shouldn't be shown at all, let alone be the default answer. Totally bogus.
brainiac wrote:
Here is the default SNR comparison that DxOMark loads when your average photographer looks for a comparison between D700 and 5Dmk2. It even says under the graph "The signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) indicates how much noise is present in an image, compared to the actual information (signal)". Please point out to me where it explains that this graph is the equivalent of cropping 12 Mpixels from the 5D2 frame and comparing that cropped image to the whole D700 frame. http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/dxosux.jpg
Please note, that this is what DxO shows you by default, without any explanation of why it is a gross falsehood. More to the point, what is the purpose of this graph? What does it actually show you? It compares a crop from one camera against the whole frame of another, where both cameras have the same size of sensor. This information just shouldn't be shown at all, let alone be the default answer. Totally bogus. ...Show more →
but you can hit the print tab so they do take it into account
granted they should make a much bigger deal about the two tabs since people do miss it.
brainiac wrote:
Please note, that this is what DxO shows you by default, without any explanation of why it is a gross falsehood. More to the point, what is the purpose of this graph? What does it actually show you? It compares a crop from one camera against the whole frame of another, where both cameras have the same size of sensor. This misleading graph just shouldn't be shown at all, let alone be the default answer. Totally bogus.
gfiksel wrote:
Too bad they do not indicate it straightforwardly on their plots.
I agree. They mislead as many people as DPR does. And they present their site as some kind of definitive scientific source of knowledge. It's not acceptable, if you understand this stuff, to be so careless. These sites are doing a great disservice to the camera buyer.
The important thing to remember about DxOMark's "screen" comparison is that it has practically no real world meaning. They ought to remove all the "screen" data from their site. It is an entirely bogus method of comparison as it tells you practically nothing about the comparative camera performance that you will see in real world usage. All it does is skew results in favour of lower megapixel cameras.
brainiac wrote:
Here is the default SNR comparison that DxOMark loads when your average photographer looks for a comparison between D700 and 5Dmk2. It even says under the graph "The signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) indicates how much noise is present in an image, compared to the actual information (signal)". Please point out to me where it explains that this graph is the equivalent of cropping 12 Mpixels from the 5D2 frame and comparing that cropped image to the whole D700 frame. http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/dxosux.jpg
Please note, that this is what DxO shows you by default, without any explanation of why it is a gross falsehood. More to the point, what is the purpose of this graph? What does it actually show you? It compares a crop from one camera against the whole frame of another, where both cameras have the same size of sensor. This misleading graph just shouldn't be shown at all, let alone be the default answer. Totally bogus. ...Show more →
we need to start a ban on all non-sequitor graphs and charts...really enough already it only seems out to the few hundred people that may read this thread maybe a dozen may know what hell it all means...cant we just go back and post pictures with a new camera why hell I will even let you use those old fashion Zeiss M/F lenses but you will complain about the focusing screen..oh I forgot someone already did...just a question does it make people feel smarter to post charts and graphs...the time it takes to read such things..and explain them to the 1 or 2 people could be time better used
to actually use the camera for its intended purpose...glad this isnt an Automobile forum you all would just have you cars in the garage and debating horsepower to weight ratios, blah blah blah...
digitalbug30d wrote:
we need to start a ban on all non-sequitor graphs and charts...really enough already it only seems out to the few hundred people that may read this thread maybe a dozen may know what hell it all means...cant we just go back and post pictures with a new camera why hell I will even let you use those old fashion Zeiss M/F lenses but you will complain about the focusing screen..oh I forgot someone already did...just a question does it make people feel smarter to post charts and graphs...the time it takes to read such things..and explain them to the 1 or 2 people could be time better used
to actually use the camera for its intended purpose...glad this isnt an Automobile forum you all would just have you cars in the garage and debating horsepower to weight ratios, blah blah blah......Show more →
To be fair, these charts, graphs, etc. were responses to others' claims. If you want to ban the response you need to ban the assertion - which won't work. It may be better though to have specific attacks/defenses in separate threads and leave the Master Thread to less confrontational topics such as specifications, tips, samples, questions, lessons learned, etc.
So now I've had my 7d for a little over a week. I sold my 40d to get this camera, and so far so good.
I'll leave the scientific explanations to the experts here and elsewhere, and I'm anxiously waiting some specific reviews.
But here are some unscientific observations so far (if anyone cares and in no particular order):
* Higher ISO images appear to be better than with the 40d, but only slightly
* I under-estimated some of the learning curve with the differences between the 40d and 7d. I think it is just getting to used to the subtle differences, particularly focus options, metering options, etc. The controls are all exactly as expected, but every camera, or lens,takes a little while to get used to what it can do.
* The Quick Control Screen is a nice feature I didn't expect to like
* The Micro AF Adjustment is fantastic, as my 70-200 2.8 IS consistently had a very slight front focus with my 40d and with the 7d. I already "adjusted" that away and it has made an amazing difference. It was very easy to determine the best setting (+5). This was a feature for which I had been tempted to move from the 40d to the 50d, and it was an important factor in my decision to buy the 7d.
* The RAW/Jpeg feature will be handy. I'd had a few occasions where I wanted to switch from jpeg to raw, but didn't have the time or I'd miss the shot.
* As expected 18mp allows for greater cropping, but I didn't realize how much of a difference that could make - more valuable than expected
* I didn't expect the 100% viewfinder to make much of a difference, but find I appreciate seeing the edges when composing.
* The camera feels noticeably more solid, yet only slightly heavier.
I haven't yet taken any video - that will give away that I purchased a new camera, and I'm hoping the "finance department" will miss it. If I start showing videos I'm all done ;-) That will have to wait a couple of weeks until she is off on a girls weekend. But I didn't really buy this camera for video, so.....
In order to get the camera, I ended up buying it with the 18-135 as a kit. The lens is for sale as it won't replace my 24-105, and next on my list is the 10-22 anyways.
I went by the Local (Chattanooga, TN) Best Buy Sunday and they had an empty display spot for the 7D. For kicks, I asked the poor salesman if they had any in stock, figuring it was a certain no. He had to go off and find some keys for the cabinet. I started feeling a little guilty about asking about it and making him run off looking for keys. He came back, opened up the cabinet, and there were 2 7D (28-135mm kit) staring back at me. I pulled out my 10% off coupon from the school coupon book sale, and bought 1 of them.
10% off coupon, 9.25% sales tax. No shipping. $35 Best Buy gift certificate from my reward zone account ($5 for every $250 spent). Instant gratification.
Love it so far, amazed at how much better it is getting my 430ex away from the camera.
brainiac:
This misleading graph just shouldn't be shown at all, let alone be the default answer. Totally bogus.
As others have said, they explain the noise issue quite well and everbody should see and use "print" button. I actually check both and decide which camera would be better for me. I see, for instance, that 5D mkII can be as good (or better at low ISO) as D700 in print
