It's not my fault you didn't structure your sentence properly. Even by reading the whole sentence, I still get the impression that you don't like the 7D because you can't use the flash for video, but anyway... this isn't WRIT101 so carry on.
if he didn't mean that he didn't like it because you can't use flash while taking videos what did he mean then
RobDickinson wrote:
- liveview/video - the switch, switch it to video, then press the button, video records. same for lvie view, if its sr tto live view press the button, once...
Can you confirm this? The 7D I tried behaved as follows: switch to video, hit button, mirror flips/liveview comes on, hit button again, red dot appears to show that camera is recording. So from shooting stills I would first need to check that the switch is set to video, which it often won't be, because I couldn't find another way of initiating liveview, then I would need to press the video button, at which point the camera would start liveview BUT NOT START VIDEO, and then press the button a second time to start recording. Built for people who have plenty of time on their hands and love fiddling.
- video with FLASH? what are you on about!?
I will try to use shorter sentences in future. To clarify, what I meant was this: BECAUSE YOU CAN'T USE FLASH with video, it is often desirable to use wide apertures instead. No flash, therefore available light. That is why the absence of an EFS 15mm f1.4 limits the appeal of the 7D's video capabilities for me. Notwithstanding the absence of 24p, a 5D2 with 24 f1.4 is a far more potent low light video rig, because it's a great focal length for general video use and especially hand-holding, and it can see in the dark (i.e. without flash by necessity!).
stevet wrote:
For still photography you can use flash to compensate for lack of light when using slow lenses. For video you can't. So you need fast glass.
He then goes on to say that for fast wide glass there are limited options (IIRC)
Thanks Steve - I wish you could proof read all the crap I write ;-) I suppose commas are rare enough these days that people read them as full stops (periods). Still, if that sentence is considered convoluted, I wonder what people make of John Locke.
alundeb wrote:
My 7D also flips the mirror when setting the mode switch to video. First time the Start/stop button is pressed, video starts recording.
If I'm in LiveView when switching to video mode, the mirror remains up. If I then switch back to LiveView, the mirror goes down.
I've not understood. If the switch is set to video, and the mirror is down, in normal stills mode, and you press the video start button, does video start recording? Or do you have to press that button twice to actually start a video recording?
brainiac wrote:
I've not understood. If the switch is set to video, and the mirror is down, in normal stills mode, and you press the video start button, does video start recording?
I see, there's more to it.
When the switch is in video mode, the mirror is always up.
Or do you have to press that button twice to actually start a video recording?
No
I can't find any way to get the mirror down when the switch is in video mode? How did you do that?
brainiac wrote:
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T USE FLASH with video, it is often desirable to use wide apertures instead. No flash, therefore available light. That is why the absence of an EFS 15mm f1.4 limits the appeal of the 7D's video capabilities for me. Notwithstanding the absence of 24p, a 5D2 with 24 f1.4 is a far more potent low light video rig, because it's a great focal length for general video use and especially hand-holding, and it can see in the dark (i.e. without flash by necessity!).
It's probably not quite as fast as you'd like (two stops slower), but I've been reading rave reviews about the new Canon 17-55mm F2.8 EF-S lens with IS. Apparently they are close to razor sharp even wide open, and the IS works great.
Canon is going to sell a ton of these lenses to the video folks.
cameron12x wrote:
It's probably not quite as fast as you'd like (two stops slower), but I've been reading rave reviews about the new Canon 17-55mm F2.8 EF-S lens. Apparently they are close to razor sharp even wide open.
Canon is going to sell a ton of these lenses to the video folks.
brainiac wrote:
Sounds great, but f2.8 is not f1.4.
Agreed.
What video frame rate will you be typically shooting and what shutter speed for low-light scenarios? I assume the IS doesn't really come into play in video applications?
alundeb wrote:
I can't find any way to get the mirror down when the switch is in video mode? How did you do that?
Hmm. Don't know. Presumably if you switch the camera off then on it will wake in stills mode even if the switch is set to video. I couldn't get video/liveview to switch off once I had activated it either. There must be a way, otherwise that's yet another reason the camera is virtually unusable as a combined video/stills device. Maybe there's something in the instructions about this. At any rate, it surprised me that the 5D2 and 500D have this sorted but the 7D doesn't. One needs to be able to shoot stills, AND use a single button press to switch on/off liveview, AND use a single button press to start and stop video recording. That is the case on the 5D2 and 500D but I couldn't find a way to do it on the 7D despite the extra button and switch. Brainless interface designers. I hope I'm wrong, or this will probably be yet another example of Canon having to fix in firmware what every user takes one day to discover is borked.
cameron12x wrote:
What video frame rate will you be typically shooting and what shutter speed for low-light scenarios? I assume the IS doesn't really come into play in video applications?
IS often looks a bit weird on video because as you start to pan, (comma), the lens tries to stick with the original framing, (comma), and then gives up and reverts to the stabiliser's default position as panning continues. The result is a weirdly non-fluent lurching kind of movement that feels like the cameraman was drunk. Moreover, the sound of the IS motors can usually be heard quite well since they are in solid contact with the microphone itself. Finally, IS does nothing to stop subject motion, so it is hopeless for shooting people, animals, waves, fireworks, sport, windy scenes, and any other kind of moving subject in low light. IS doesn't work with moving subjects, and video is only valuable for shooting... moving subjects. Two aperture stops of extra light OTOH...
brainiac wrote:
IS often looks a bit weird on video because as you start to pan, (comma), the lens tries to stick with the original framing, (comma), and then gives up and reverts to the stabiliser's default position as panning continues. The result is a weirdly non-fluent lurching kind of movement that feels like the cameraman was drunk. Moreover, the sound of the IS motors can usually be heard quite well since they are in solid contact with the microphone itself. Finally, IS does nothing to stop subject motion, so it is hopeless for shooting people, animals, waves, fireworks, sport, windy scenes, and any other kind of moving subject in low light. Two aperture stops of extra light OTOH......Show more →
Well put, and perfectly understandable English.
Hence the need for very wide and very fast non-IS lenses for low-light video applications on a crop-sensor vDSLR such as the 7D.
Have you been visiting some of the video sites which have been covering/following/using the 7D? There may be others, but here are some which come to mind:
cameron12x wrote:
Have you been visiting some of the video sites which have been covering/following/using the 7D? There may be others, but here are some which come to mind:
Thanks for those - couldn't find too much about this button issue there though. There is talk of overheating, jelly, and freeze-framing. Perhaps the obstacles to switching off liveview when not in use are a contributor. I have noticed with 5D2's that when the lens changes the aperture, video can look glitchy, and also when shutter speed changes to a faster rate you can see jelly-like frame transitions. However, I generally shoot on full auto with few problems which can't be edited around.
There is a different approach to using Video and Liveview that is possible with the 7D.
When you are in video mode, and are not recording, this is pretty much the same as being in LiveView mode.
(Even when the mode switch is in video mode when the camera is off, the mirror goes up when i turn the camera on).
So, if I want to use LiveView, I can always switch to video mode instead. Then I can take stills like in LiveView, or start/stop video with the button.
If I want to take stills with the mirror down, I switch the mode button. Works for me.
alundeb wrote:
There is a different approach to using Video and Liveview that is possible with the 7D.
When you are in video mode, and are not recording, this is pretty much the same as being in LiveView mode.
(Even when the mode switch is in video mode when the camera is off, the mirror goes up when i turn the camera on).
Hmm. Doesn't sound great to me. Maybe one day they'll replace the shutter release with a switch too, so that I can switch it to the left when I want to take a picture, and switch it to the right when I don't.
A trigger-on/trigger-off button for liveview and another such for recording seems like a better solution. Maybe I'll understand the switch function better once I get used to it.
One thing to note is that the "convergence of video and still shooting" in a single form-factor "imaging device" is still in its relative infancy.
With respect to controls, as more experience is gained and more use cases are presented, the better feedback we'll be able to provide to the "imaging device" manufacturers (e.g. Canon, Nikon, Sony, et al).
Very exciting, very creative, yet also potentially frustrating times...
