Just discovered the zoom ring on the S90, WOW! Not been this excited about a canon announcement since the leaked Spanish PDF about the original 5D (to a jaded 1Ds shooter at the time).
Or the nifty collar ring. If I were to get one of these two, it would probably be the S90. Not that there's anything wrong with the G11, it just looks to be outshined by the more compact, brighter S90.
I agree, the S90 looks like a winner. Compact and fast lens, at wide-angle.
Beni wrote:
I was going to say 'wow, G11, I want one' then I saw the S90. Can anyone highlight for me why the G11 would be better?
Have to be honest, for all the bruha about the micro 4/3's they still don't have a decent pocket camera and if it's over my shoulder and got a lens sticking out I might as well have my 5D. A nice pocket camera would be wonderful to replace my great (and hacked) A710IS.
G series is not a pocket camera. So if that is your requirement the s90 is the way to go.
Things the G11 has are the hot shoe, high speed sync, optical viewfinder, low shutter lag mode (s90 may have this also), swivel-able LCD display. Downsize is size.
jerrykur wrote:
Things the G11 has are the hot shoe, high speed sync, optical viewfinder, low shutter lag mode (s90 may have this also), swivel-able LCD display.
Perhaps it's not important to some, but I think it's too generous to say it has an "optical VF". Actually, the VF is a joke and anyone that has used a G10 (and probably a G9) can attest to how bad it really is. From my perspective, it's bad, but any time you obstruct the view with a lens there's a problem IMO.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
I'm going for the soon-to-be announced Panasonic that essentially puts a 4/3 sensor in an LX-3, already a better camera than the G10 in some ways. Panasonic has made amazing progress on contrast detect AF speed and will leave the G11 for dead in AF speed and noise above ISO 400 and I you get to change lenses.
It's a shame the G11 took 1 step forward (pixels) and then shot itself in the foot with piss poor video and slow lens. In the absence of m-4/3 the G11 looks fine, but I'm prepared to pay a lot more for a truly excellent compact and Panasonic has great video as seen on GH-1....Show more →
I agree!!! Canon should've stuck an APS-C sensor in that baby :-)......
Pixel Perfect wrote:
I'm going for the soon-to-be announced Panasonic that essentially puts a 4/3 sensor in an LX-3, already a better camera than the G10 in some ways. Panasonic has made amazing progress on contrast detect AF speed and will leave the G11 for dead in AF speed and noise above ISO 400 and I you get to change lenses.
It's a shame the G11 took 1 step forward (pixels) and then shot itself in the foot with piss poor video and slow lens. In the absence of m-4/3 the G11 looks fine, but I'm prepared to pay a lot more for a truly excellent compact and Panasonic has great video as seen on GH-1....Show more →
I agree 100%. I'd like to see something like this from Canon, a 'micro-EOS' system, but doubt it will happen until m4/3 is less of a fringe format.
Since getting the LX3, I've become a fan of what Panasonic has been doing, both with the G-1 GH-1 and also with their compacts. Many of those cameras have 25mm equivalent lenses and reasonable high ISO without heavy handed NR, which to me shows Panasonic understands there needs to be a thoughtful balance of specs, functionality and image quality.
roanjohnnyc wrote:
.....not if they take out the mirror. Just imagine, APS-C w/ 1/2000 flash sync.......UY!!
However, a bigger sensor needs bigger optics to catch enough light to it. Or then slower optics, which is definitely not a good idea. And bigger optics tend to make a camera larger and heavier...
Please also note that the lens is 38-135mm f/3.6-8.9 as contrasted to the G11 (35mm equivalent) 28-140mm f2.8-4.5. The speed at the telephoto end is the hard one to satisfy when you have restrictions to the physical lens size. f8.9 is really dim in comparison with f4.5!!!
At least it's got a decent screen. From the look of the specs, with AF, the shooting speed is actually fractionally slower with the G11 than the S90. Is 0.6 of a second fast for AF and shoot with these cameras? What is that relative to an SLR? Just interested to see what modern p&s's are doing, I'm way behind the times on the whole scene. I like my A710 IS with the CHDK hack which gives me great customiseability especially with the auto ISO but when shooting RAW with flash it has a 4 second recycle time, that takes for some very careful shooting when you have an 'active' 3.5 year old!
astrolucida wrote:
However, a bigger sensor needs bigger optics to catch enough light to it. Or then slower optics, which is definitely not a good idea. And bigger optics tend to make a camera larger and heavier...
Edit: I noticed an earlier related comment:
Please also note that the lens is 38-135mm f/3.6-8.9 as contrasted to the G11 (35mm equivalent) 28-140mm f2.8-4.5. The speed at the telephoto end is the hard one to satisfy when you have restrictions to the physical lens size. f8.9 is really dim in comparison with f4.5!!!
But only as far as exposure goes yes its 2(ish) stops but then the larger sensor should be able to take care of that (or more as we are talking FF)
As far as DOF is concerend while not anything like a proper fast lens on a FF DSLR it should still be better than from the Actual 6.1 to 30.5mm lens the G11 has
astrolucida wrote:
However, a bigger sensor needs bigger optics to catch enough light to it. Or then slower optics, which is definitely not a good idea. And bigger optics tend to make a camera larger and heavier...
Edit: I noticed an earlier related comment:
Please also note that the lens is 38-135mm f/3.6-8.9 as contrasted to the G11 (35mm equivalent) 28-140mm f2.8-4.5. The speed at the telephoto end is the hard one to satisfy when you have restrictions to the physical lens size. f8.9 is really dim in comparison with f4.5!!!
Also, from reading the specs, the old film camera you mentioned was bulkier than the G10/G11, which isn't exactly pocket-sized either.
well its not that much bulkier but then it was using a roll of film which wasn't exactly small.
But my real point is I cant see why the bigger digital compacts cant have bigger sensors. Maybe not FF but bigger maybe in the region of APS.
Just look at some of the APS film cams they were small and pocketable
There are 35mm film cameras out there (no longer made obviously ) that are smaller than a G10. My smallest rangefinder (Canon G111 1.7 QL ) is only marginally bigger.
I am a bit cheesed off as I recently bought a G10 having put of buying a P+S for years ( I was tempted by the G6 )...then decided on the G10 as it seemed to be the best pocketable camera on the market for my needs. It does fit into my jacket and trouses pockets...so it is a take anywhere pocketable camera. If Canon have come out with a noticably improved camera at the same price so soon I will not be happy.
As for comments made about the sensor number reduction......it is probably safe to assume they will be 'better' sensors. It is worth remembering the IQ of the 4 MP 1D. It is unlikely that the IQ of the G11 will not better that of the G10...and it is also unlikely that the G11 won't be capable of superb A3 prints ( The G10 is).
Hopefully the G11 will have a much better dynamic range ( My main disappointment with the G10 ) and fewer noise issues. I would have liked a a wider lens ( Although I get good results when stitching images in PS ) and a wider aperture.
Call my a cynic...but I suspect Canon could have introduced these features if it wanted.......but instead does just enough to shift loads of any particular model. It's not their DSLR sales Canon are protecting.....Canon just doesn't want to bring out a P+S product that is so good customers won't upgrade for several years!
Only a superior product from another manufacturer will change this attitude in my opinion.
rscheffler wrote:
Many of those cameras have 25mm equivalent lenses and reasonable high ISO without heavy handed NR, which to me shows Panasonic understands there needs to be a thoughtful balance of specs, functionality and image quality. Ron
Actually, Panasonic has come a LONG way to get here. Their compact cameras before 2008 were pretty AWFUL with poor functionality, painterly images at ALL ISOs, high pricing etc.
anthonygh wrote:
There are 35mm film cameras out there (no longer made obviously ) that are smaller than a G10. My smallest rangefinder (Canon G111 1.7 QL ) is only marginally bigger.
I am a bit cheesed off as I recently bought a G10 having put of buying a P+S for years ( I was tempted by the G6 )...then decided on the G10 as it seemed to be the best pocketable camera on the market for my needs. It does fit into my jacket and trouses pockets...so it is a take anywhere pocketable camera. If Canon have come out with a noticably improved camera at the same price so soon I will not be happy.
As for comments made about the sensor number reduction......it is probably safe to assume they will be 'better' sensors. It is worth remembering the IQ of the 4 MP 1D. It is unlikely that the IQ of the G11 will not better that of the G10...and it is also unlikely that the G11 won't be capable of superb A3 prints ( The G10 is).
Hopefully the G11 will have a much better dynamic range ( My main disappointment with the G10 ) and fewer noise issues. I would have liked a a wider lens ( Although I get good results when stitching images in PS ) and a wider aperture.
Call my a cynic...but I suspect Canon could have introduced these features if it wanted.......but instead does just enough to shift loads of any particular model. It's not their DSLR sales Canon are protecting.....Canon just doesn't want to bring out a P+S product that is so good customers won't upgrade for several years!
Only a superior product from another manufacturer will change this attitude in my opinion.
The smallest I know of was the Minox, which was a fixed length lens and VERY basic by comparison. I think there was a tiny Rollei too, still very simple.
Buying any digicam is going to be a compromise between having the tool to take pictures NOW and what may come in the future. This is why I treat my gear well and have a very active ebay account to sell the gear on frequently as I upgrade. I don't generally lose more than 20%, often much less and I've had all that picture-taking time with each model.
Ebay is the way for me, vastly superior to getting a paltry trade-in from a camera shop
anthonygh wrote:
...Call my a cynic...but I suspect Canon could have introduced these features if it wanted.......but instead does just enough to shift loads of any particular model. It's not their DSLR sales Canon are protecting.....Canon just doesn't want to bring out a P+S product that is so good customers won't upgrade for several years!
Only a superior product from another manufacturer will change this attitude in my opinion.
I agree. It's not about comming out with good camera, its comming out with better cameras than others.
