telyt wrote:
And they'll have diffraction and noise problems that the S2's larger sensor avoids.
Actually anything is going to have diffraction problems past a certain point, that's a non issue IMHO. What you gain in the ability to stop down you loose in DOF for a given aperture with a larger format. It can make a difference if you are shooting with high power strobes and doing something like overpowering daylight. It could make a difference for the maximum resolution a format can deliver, whereas something like the S2 will obviously have a higher threshold based on sensor size. We'll have to see if Leica will ever up the S2's resolution though, 35mm DSLRs are no where near their max mp for a bayer type sensor.
Diffraction isn't the boogeyman everyone makes it out to be, it's just a fact of life. You're body may be able to pull 60mp worth of resolution from a perfect lens at f/4, but if your DOF doesn't cover your subject I'd much rather pull 38mp worth of res. at f/11 and have adequate DOF.
Noise problems? I haven't seen any output from the S2 yet, but the D3x has some awfully impressive shadow recover and very nice high ISO. It's not as nice as a MF file, but it certainly ain't bad.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious what the S2 will really bring to the table. It does look very very nice.
Jammy Straub wrote:
...I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious what the S2 will really bring to the table. It does look very very nice.
The S2 camera and lenses will produce superb images and the few photogs who use them will do so in delight, while all those who will never even hold one will find many reasons why it's not up to par with consumer-grade 35mm DSLRs anyway
ulrikft wrote:
this artificial division between "gear head", "parameter head" etc and on the other hand, the true, blessed artists.... well, I find it a bit childish, infantile, and artificial.
I think it's childish to apply it categorically, but it's hard to deny that there are a lot of camera users out there who are more consumer than artist. Similarly, there are plenty who are the opposite. In my own experience, I find that the most talented shooters know their gear to the nth (as in, nerdiest) degree, but have grown past the need to either talk about it, or spend endless hours calibrating or pixel peeping. By contrast, I've often noticed that the least productive (in terms of quantity and quality) photographers are often the most prolific consumers of photography equipment. Hence, while it may be fallacious to apply the categories too generally, I think there's a grain of truth to the notion that an obsession with parameters and emerging photographic technology can rob you of the time or ability to focus on "seeing." After all, we only have so many hours to live, right?
As for staying OT, the Leica rig looks like it'll be awesome for its target market... which is clearly not me.
While the Leica S2 is a brilliant looking camera, I seriously doubt there's enough market for it to carve out a decent niche. A large number of advertising pros are happy to use all-manual V-series Hasselblads and if they want something more modern there's offerings from Mamiya/Phase One and Hasselblad's H-series.
The only advantage I see over what's already out there is the 35mm-style handling so the question is how many pros out there are saying, 'Hmmm, the handling of my Hassy is a a show-stopper but a 21MP DSLR doesn't cut it for what I'm shooting...' I'm suggesting that's a teeny niche.
ShutterLover wrote:
While the Leica S2 is a brilliant looking camera, I seriously doubt there's enough market for it to carve out a decent niche. A large number of advertising pros are happy to use all-manual V-series Hasselblads and if they want something more modern there's offerings from Mamiya/Phase One and Hasselblad's H-series.
The only advantage I see over what's already out there is the 35mm-style handling so the question is how many pros out there are saying, 'Hmmm, the handling of my Hassy is a a show-stopper but a 21MP DSLR doesn't cut it for what I'm shooting...' I'm suggesting that's a teeny niche....Show more →
While I have my issues with the S2, I do think there is a market for it. Primarily landscape shooters, but that is a fairly large market.
I don't see a lot of MF-shooting pros going Leica, I do think there is a solid market for people unhappy with the current size/resolution tradeoffs. My issues with the S2 are primarily with regards to control layout (neither fish nor fowl based on what I've been able to find out) and pricing (although the recent Hassy and Phamiya announcements offset that solidly).
There are plenty of pros unhappy with the reliability of the Hasselblad H system and there are those who just don't care for the Mamiya 645. There are also those who miss the uber high quality feel that high end MF used to have and that is missing in the currently available bodies and lenses. The Leica S2 certainly delivers in the quality department and brings back top notch optics in a solid feeling body and lenses, something also missing in the Fuji and Mamiya systems to a degree. That said, the only way the S2 will really make a dent in the Pro market is if it is readily available for rent. That will likely make or break this camera as far as success. With both Leaf and Sinar pretty much out of the picture, I do think there is an opening in the market if Leica is able to initiate the support infrastructure required. Otherwise, hard to see the S2 finding success through just the handful of rich landscape photographers and doctors out there that can afford to buy the camera. Rental availability is key.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
There are plenty of pros unhappy with the reliability of the Hasselblad H system and there are those who just don't care for the Mamiya 645...
And plenty that long for a new updated Contax 645 and a few new Zeiss lenses to go with it. They hang on to their old Contax's in the hope (however faded) that the system will be re-born, and use them until the drop.
Lotusm50 wrote:
And plenty that long for a new updated Contax 645 and a few new Zeiss lenses to go with it. They hang on to their old Contax's in the hope (however faded) that the system will be re-born, and use them until the drop.
The camera Phase One should have acquired instead of the Mamiya.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
The camera Phase One should have acquired instead of the Mamiya.
They definitely goofed on that one. Their board, who rejected the early Contax deal are all probably kicking themselves, if they haven't already been sacked.
Dream the impossible dream: buy a S2 but be prepared for it to be orphaned and obsolete in 2/3 years. At least with 135 (35mm) you have those legacy lenses that fit all the Ms. But where are the R Leica bodies and lenses today? Nobody is pushing and shoving to buy those.
