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Archive 2009 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved

  
 
schlotz
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p.11 #1 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


+1 digitalbug30d


Jun 01, 2009 at 09:57 PM
Andrew J
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p.11 #2 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


It's bad enough depending on Canon's manufacturing facilities. They now have a system setup that relies largely on their repair facilities. This is a recipe for disaster.


Jun 01, 2009 at 10:34 PM
musclepics
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p.11 #3 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


Let's not forget that RG has stated that the 40D's AF is not suitable for sport photography, or almost anything involving moving objects.
Yet I know a couple pro motor sport photographers that use the 40D with great success to say the least.

That proves that RG has unrealistic expectations period.


As for the MKIII vs D3/D700 comparison, if your MKIII is not at least as good in AF as those cameras, then your MKIII is definitely problematic. In my limited testing, the MKIII beats them both handily in low light (especially things like indoor volleyball), and is slightly better in daylight tracking (now that my MKIII is fixed).



Jun 02, 2009 at 12:17 PM
musclepics
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p.11 #4 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


Pixel Perfect wrote:
This post at dpreview may restore faith in the 1D III. Have a look at these shots of a red tail kite taken witha 1D III + 300 f/2.8L IS wide open or at most f/3.5 - amongst the best I've ever seen

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=32018649



Just incredible, but as a 1D MKIII owner, I'm not surprised.



Jun 02, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Nathan Hobbs
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p.11 #5 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


My biggest problem with RG's testing is he has pounded the Mark III into the ground torn it apart and nit picked the thing to death but he has not put out one article about Nikons focusing system and put it through the paces. Ohh and he writes an article about how the Mark III focus system is broken while posting pictures of incredibly sharp sports photos...kind of ironic dont you think?


Jun 02, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Nowhere Man
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p.11 #6 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


Nathan Hobbs wrote:
My biggest problem with RG's testing is he has pounded the Mark III into the ground torn it apart and nit picked the thing to death but he has not put out one article about Nikons focusing system and put it through the paces. Ohh and he writes an article about how the Mark III focus system is broken while posting pictures of incredibly sharp sports photos...kind of ironic dont you think?


It's not ironic. The moment you start taking advertising dollars from someone, I believe it's impossible (no matter how hard you try) to stay unbiased in product reviews.



Jun 02, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Hrow
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p.11 #7 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


I guess some of this depends on expectations. In going through the various series it is very evident that there are shots that are in focus and those that aren't and there doesn't seem to be a good reason why. If 5 good shots followed by 3 bad ones which are followed by 3 good ones is OK with you then you are golden. If your expectations are higher or if your livelihood is dependent on knowing that the super capture of the winning home run isn't one of the three bad ones then perhaps you still have some problems with Canon's AF. Different strokes for different folks.

PS. The suggestion that he is less than bright for not MAing his lenses is somewhat ludicrous in that ignores the fact that so many frames are in focus. IF he MAed them for the OOF images then those that are currently in focus would all be toast.

PPS. If Nikon's AF is better or worse doesn't matter relative to RG's article and it doesn't matter a lick if he writes about Nikon or not. The real question is does the MkIII deliver the results desired? That's a simple yes or no question and the correct answer ultimately rests in the hands of each end user. It is important to note that that is a very different question than the much more complex is Canon better than Nikon.




Jun 02, 2009 at 02:26 PM
Curator
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p.11 #8 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


Hrow wrote:
If 5 good shots followed by 3 bad ones which are followed by 3 good ones is OK with you then you are golden. If your expectations are higher or if your livelihood is dependent on knowing that the super capture of the winning home run isn't one of the three bad ones then perhaps you still have some problems with Canon's AF. Different strokes for different folks.


What camera would you recommend that will guarantee that a particular sequence of shots will be in focus?




Jun 02, 2009 at 02:35 PM
jonbrach
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p.11 #9 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


I have owned pretty much every canon camera for a period of time over the past several years...kept some,sold some...i never ever was able to get all of my action shots in perfect focus with my 1d-markII and didnt expect to..too many variables involved...all i knew was that i got a hell of a lot more in focus than with any other camera I had used...the markIII does as well or better for me in terms of % of keepers in addition to its far better low light abilities...high ISO performance etc....I want a camera that is perfect or as close to perfect as possible as much as anybody else but I do think that for whatever reason the markIII deserved or not has suffered more slings and arrows than any other camera....for what it is worth i shot with a buddy who had nikon equipment and we both did about the same in terms of OOF shots...both cameras have strengths and weaknesses but I like my markIII ...what can I say?


Jun 02, 2009 at 02:54 PM
Jon_Doh
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p.11 #10 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


RG says in his latest article that according to Canon the fix is to recalibrate the outer focusing points - in other words he knows from what Canon told him it wasn't about improving or fixing the Servo mode, yet he tested the camera in Servo mode and to no one's surprise loudly proclaimed there were no improvements in autofocus. Gee, wasn't that what Canon told him? Seems to me he just took an opportunity to trash the camera when there was no need to do so.

According to Canon and repeated by RG, some - read not all - cameras coming out of the factory within a certain range of serial numbers had focusing problems if a focusing point other than the center one was chosen. That was what the recall was about, to recalibrate the outer focusing points so they focused properly. The fix had nothing to do with improving the tracking of moving objects, which is what the Servo mode does.



Jun 02, 2009 at 03:00 PM
Hrow
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p.11 #11 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


Curator wrote:
What camera would you recommend that will guarantee that a particular sequence of shots will be in focus?



I would recommend the camera (and camera system) that you decide works best for what you need to shoot within the budget you have.



Jun 02, 2009 at 03:14 PM
mark fadely
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p.11 #12 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


Jon,

The latest fix was all about fixing the tracking and focus accuracy of all the points. Canon didn't want to openly admit that they were fixing the overall performance of the ai-servo autofocus system. Probably just to save face from their prior denials of actual problems. Anyway, fact is, they figured out a fix to turn the camera into a great performer that can even outdo the mighty MKIIn which I also own.

If I didn't own the camera and had read RG's article I would assume the very same thing, Jon. But there are a lot of hidden issues at play here and when people without first hand knowledge make assumptions and conclusions based on heresay and inaccurate information it gets very confusing for everyone following the thread.





Jon_Doh wrote:
RG says in his latest article that according to Canon the fix is to recalibrate the outer focusing points - in other words he knows from what Canon told him it wasn't about improving or fixing the Servo mode, yet he tested the camera in Servo mode and to no one's surprise loudly proclaimed there were no improvements in autofocus. Gee, wasn't that what Canon told him? Seems to me he just took an opportunity to trash the camera when there was no need to do so.

According to Canon and repeated by RG, some - read not all - cameras
...Show more



Jun 02, 2009 at 04:07 PM
Paul B
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p.11 #13 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


mark fadely wrote:
Jon,

The latest fix was all about fixing the tracking and focus accuracy of all the points. Canon didn't want to openly admit that they were fixing the overall performance of the ai-servo autofocus system. Probably just to save face from their prior denials of actual problems. Anyway, fact is, they figured out a fix to turn the camera into a great performer that can even outdo the mighty MKIIn which I also own.




How do you know they were also fixing the center point? When I first saw the Canon annnouncement I wondered if they were doing that also, for the reasons you list, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that (though maybe it's assumed in some of the previous posts.)



Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22 PM
mark fadely
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p.11 #14 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


That's the funny thing Paul. Canon never did officially say they were fixing the center point. It's just that when I got my camera back it was myseriously fixed as were many, many other's here on FM. Go figure?


Jun 02, 2009 at 04:26 PM
rscheffler
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p.11 #15 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


Jon_Doh wrote:
RG says in his latest article that according to Canon the fix is to recalibrate the outer focusing points - in other words he knows from what Canon told him it wasn't about improving or fixing the Servo mode, yet he tested the camera in Servo mode and to no one's surprise loudly proclaimed there were no improvements in autofocus. Gee, wasn't that what Canon told him? Seems to me he just took an opportunity to trash the camera when there was no need to do so.


I suppose you can make that interpretation if you want to, but RG clearly states:

"We opted to come out of EOS-1D Mark III testing retirement because we'd had a lot of reader requests to, because of the small but very happy number of shooters who were telling us how much better their camera's AF was after going through Canon's service, because of the real, if slim, possibility that the revised calibration could shore up Assist AF shooting and because the opportunity presented itself, in the form of Canon USA being amenable to loaning gear to supplement what we already own, thereby enabling the possibility of a useful test."

What he did was what anyone with a Mark III would do in similar circumstances. After reading the recent 'success' stories from other III owners regarding the latest AF fix, I too sent my copies in to see if it would make a miraculous difference as some claimed. So far, after about 1500 frames, it appears there is a difference in that little or no microfocus adjustment is now needed with many lenses. However, I'm still seeing inconsistent AI Servo tracking performance, contrary to what some here on FM have claimed about this most recent fix. I did the test privately for my benefit whereas RG put his on the web due to reader demand.

Regarding the fact he generates advertising revenue: What about other sites like DPReview, which is now owned by Amazon and has significant advertising. Were they critical of the Mark III? No, they didn't even review it! Yet they reviewed the 1D, 1Ds, 1DII, 1DsII, 1DsIII... IIRC they had some issue getting a sample from Canon, or were snubbed by Canon? But they do actually have a 1DIII, or at least access to one because they have sample comparison files from one in the D3 review. So then, why not publish those in a standalone 1DIII review? Taking the cynical view, where is one going to find impartial reviews since everyone is making money and therefore must have an agenda? Nothing has changed from the era when magazines provided the reviews, which were supported by ads from the very brands they reviewed. What gets me though is some seem to be extremely critical of RG simply because his reporting is generating traffic. Considering the amount of time and effort he has invested in this, to the benefit of us readers, he should be allowed compensation.

Think what you will, but I appreciate the information he has published, which I could compare to my own results and those of others like members here on this forum, in order to form a broader opinion of the matter.

Ron



Jun 02, 2009 at 05:10 PM
nathanlake
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p.11 #16 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


Time for this thread to die I think.


Jun 02, 2009 at 06:08 PM
Paul B
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p.11 #17 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


rscheffler wrote:
Regarding the fact he generates advertising revenue: What about other sites like DPReview, which is now owned by Amazon and has significant advertising. Were they critical of the Mark III? No, they didn't even review it! Yet they reviewed the 1D, 1Ds, 1DII, 1DsII, 1DsIII... IIRC they had some issue getting a sample from Canon, or were snubbed by Canon? But they do actually have a 1DIII, or at least access to one because they have sample comparison files from one in the D3 review. So then, why not publish those in a standalone 1DIII review? Taking the cynical view,
...Show more

Well, not to prolong another MkIII discussion (because I do agree it's time to wrap this one up ) but I've always been kind of tickled by the allegations that RG is benefiting financially from all this. I bet if one compared the increased traffic on his site to the loss of Canon advertising they'd find that this has been a significant net loss for him. I assume that at some point Canon had advertising on his site but with the MkIII issue they decided to pull it. The reality is that large companies like this can and will use their influence in various ways to sway reporting on their products. In this game/relationship, the reviewers are using their "muscle" (publicity, their claim to "objectivity," and ready access to the buying public) and the firms are using their "muscle" (their dominant position in an industry, various financial means, and access to information about what they've got on the drawing boards.) In addition, it may have become just became too uncomfortable for a company like Canon to continue advertising because it appears to lend credibility to what the reviewers are saying. They probably just got tired of having to answer questions from various interested parties (Canon execs and even Canon customers) who were asking whether Canon's continued advertising was in effect saying that RG had a point about the MkIII.

You see this same thing going on with pretty much any research regarding products and services in the IT, software, hardware and telecom industry. It's almost unheard of for one of the reviewers (whether it's larger research studies put out by the syndicated research firms, or industry magazines, or whatever) to really bare all when they review products. Instead, there's a lot of bobbing and weaving and a lot of "grey areas" in asssessing what's what even when a product clearly has problems. The reason: seriously pissing off the largest firms in an industry, when the analyst covers that industry, has pretty severe consequences for one's career (the firms may provide financing in one form or another such as advertising, or simply provide access to information that can be cut off.)

As you say, Ron, there are other sites/publications that have not reviewed the MkIII even though they've had ample chance to do so and there's undoubtedly a good reason: who in their right mind wants to wade into the MkIII hornet's nest if they will proabably have to conclude that it's got issues? Particularly when it became clear that Canon itself was having issues figuring out what was going on and there was no clear timeline for when things would get resolved. I'm not saying I believe everything RG has said is accurate (I'm not even a MkIII owner so can't do my own testing) but it's always been amazing to me that he's been as blunt as he has about the MkIII's performance. I've spent a lot of time reading research reports on various industries/firm/products and that rarely happens in IT/telecom world (instead, we're all left to read between the tea leaves and try to figure out where the real problems in a product or company lie.) I strongly suspect this whole thing has cost him and his operation dearly. He'd have been far better off financially just saying the MkIII had a few blemishes but did the job just fine.



Jun 02, 2009 at 09:25 PM
globalkiwi
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p.11 #18 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


"I assume that at some point Canon had advertising on his site but with the MkIII issue they decided to pull it"

Reluctant as I am to prolong the life of this thread, I can't help but observe that this is a pretty big assumption. Do have any evidence to support it?



Jun 02, 2009 at 09:34 PM
Glen_C
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p.11 #19 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


Paul B wrote:
He'd have been far better off financially just saying the MkIII had a few blemishes but did the job just fine.


Pure speculation... from someone seemingly not well versed on how traffic & impressions (from an audience such as RGs site) can create significant revenue for a site owner.

If RG ignored the mkIII or said it was great he'd suffer significant traffic loss with little to no actual reason to go to his site

someone reposted Rob's idiotic 40D can't focus comments which are another huge red flag against this traffic milker.



Jun 02, 2009 at 09:55 PM
Paul B
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p.11 #20 · Galbraith Update: MK III Not Improved


globalkiwi wrote:
"I assume that at some point Canon had advertising on his site but with the MkIII issue they decided to pull it"

Reluctant as I am to prolong the life of this thread, I can't help but observe that this is a pretty big assumption. Do have any evidence to support it?


Obviously, anyone with "evidence" (i.e. a Canon employee, which I'm not) would not share the info for obvious reasons. But I've seen examples of similar things in this arena and it's how things get played, for better or worse. And my intention is not to lay blame on someone (i.e. Canon. I can't imagine Canon continuing to advertise on RG's site with this sort of thing going on. Certainly doesn't mean it will always be that way but when a big political issue like this develops and stays for some time, budgets tend to get cut when they are perceived as benefiting - rightly or wrongly - the wrong message.)

My main point, though, is that there seems to be an automatic assumption that this produces more traffic which produces a net financial increase. The financial piece, itself, is much more complex (i.e. firms support analysts in various ways and those can be cut off.) And then there's the question of how much a given firm cooperates with an analyst in providing info on future products. The latter is critical in terms of providing a given analyst a technical heads-up on info, which in turn draws more people to a given site or research firm (because that firm is perceived by the public as having greater "expertise" in the area than its competitors.) So I think it's a bit questionable to assume that someone like RG is doing this all simply to drive traffic (if that were true, why are reviewers such as DPR and others, not also blasting the MkIII to "drive traffic" and make lots of money?)



Jun 02, 2009 at 10:45 PM
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