fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       end
  

Archive 2009 · Canon 40D sharpness issue

  
 
Matt Philbin
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


sath2003...
In my opinion, the lcd screen of the 40d is not reliable enough to use for live view, especially outdoors where glare / reflections are a factor. I have had countless shots where I looked at the shot on the screen after taking the photo, and thought I had a great shot, only to go home & find out it wasn't as great as I originally thought. This happens mainly when I shoot birds in flight. Indoors, it may be better for those reasons. That would depend, also, on the complexity of the subject. For example, when shooting an isolated subject as opposed to one (like a brick wall) that has much more detail.

Stu...
I'm with you on this. I have the same combo, and mine is just fantastic for detail, especially outdoors! I upgraded from the 28-135 to the 24-105 and was very hesitant to spend the extra $$ for a very similar lens. I am very glad I did!



Apr 09, 2009 at 10:05 AM
LynnP
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


We don't know what your focusing point was. At 1/25 second you should use a tripod when using the lens at 105mm on a cropped camera, or even a FF camera. Your DOF is going to be very shallow at f4 when using it at 105mm and a subject that is that close.
Off hand I say the OP expects more than any camera is capeable of producing and needs a good book on photography. Don't worry about having to read and learn, the higher percentage of the people on this forum have and still do. Going from film to digital was/is extremely difficult for me and I have to check up on what I did wrong quite often.
Get at least PSElements 7 and learn how to post process your photos. I took an on-line course plus read several magazines and also learn from different forums. The latter being the most useful.


Lynn


Lynn



Apr 09, 2009 at 10:19 AM
michael49
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


Dawei Ye wrote:
Here's same lens at 0 sharpening, comparing 40D vs 5D2

http://dawei.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p651571191.jpg


The 40D gets no respect - its a damn fine camera!



Apr 09, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Dawei Ye
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


If you are finding that Live View is giving better results than AF, then it's likely a calibration issue, as long as you eliminate the possibilities of camera shake, and inappropriate testing technique


Apr 09, 2009 at 10:38 AM
sath2003
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


If this is a calibration issue then looks like I am struck! I have to either go for a 50D or 5D2. Anyone know standard way how to find out if your camera is correctly calibrated? I can then calibrate all my lens.


Apr 09, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Dawei Ye
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


Is your camera under warranty? If so you can get Canon to do it

But before doing so, be sure to confirm it is a calibration issue. Best way is to focus on a large flat target exactly perpendicular to the sensor, and comparing an AF result with a MF (e.g. with LiveView) result



Apr 09, 2009 at 10:46 AM
moemoephoto
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


sath2003 wrote:
If this is a calibration issue then looks like I am struck! I have to either go for a 50D or 5D2. Anyone know standard way how to find out if your camera is correctly calibrated? I can then calibrate all my lens.



Under warranty? Send it in.



Apr 09, 2009 at 10:48 AM
sath2003
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


I do have a 3 year Mack Warranty (third Party). I bought this on ebay but I found out it was grey market when I received it. No wonder they were selling me for cheap. Anyone has idea if Mack can do it? Will let you know my test results for calibration.


Apr 09, 2009 at 10:50 AM
bpark42
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


I would turn the sharpness up a couple notches from the default in the Neutral style, but not all the way up.

Show us a test with a controlled scene, taken on a tripod, with a very clear and large main subject. Use center AF point only. Then, to be thorough use maginified live view to dial focus in yourself and snap a second shot. That way you test both autofocus and camera sharpness.

The easiest subject would probably be something like a lens box used in the comparisons above. Keep the plane of the surface of the box parallel to the sensor plane.



Apr 09, 2009 at 10:54 AM
bpark42
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


Until you have done a controlled test like the one I outlined above, you can't jump to any conclusions about the camera or calibration, etc.

Ideally, you should do the test with more than one lens to make sure you don't have a lens calibration issue.



Apr 09, 2009 at 10:57 AM
nrferguson
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #11 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


msalvetti wrote:
You can get some ideas on settings at the Canon Picture Style page:
http://www.canon.co.jp/imaging/picturestyle/index.html

Mark


I hadn't seen that before and thought it quite interesting/useful until I came across this gobbledygook!!!

It is the feature of the Faithful style that color change is few by the deference of the light. In the examples, though the “Standard” is more vivid reproduction, at the part where strong light is hit, the “Faithful” maintains the color taste near the actual subjects.

Good grief!!



Apr 09, 2009 at 10:57 AM
AWDTerror
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


why don't you send it with the lens in and have canon calibrate it?

40D w/ 70-200mmL f/2.8 IS @ 1600ISO 1/60th f/4
High School Musical Production of Guys and Dolls.



Apr 09, 2009 at 11:06 AM
keithreeder
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


AWDTerror wrote:
why don't you send it with the lens in and have canon calibrate it?


How about "because there's no evidence here whatsoever that this is anything to do with calibration"?

As BPark and others have pointed out, there need to be some proper testing done first before any conclusion can be drawn, and this thoughtless, quite possibly irrelevant, and unquestionably as yet unfounded "send it to Canon for calibration" cliche serves only to play to and fuel the paranoia of the OP, and suggest to folk who come to these threads down the line that there's an ongoing body/lens calibration issue with the 40D.


Edited on Apr 09, 2009 at 11:24 AM · View previous versions



Apr 09, 2009 at 11:18 AM
AWDTerror
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


keithreeder wrote:
How about "because there's no evidence here whatsoever that this is anything to do with calibration"?


original poster
Infact, I am leaning towards a focusing problem with my camera (not user error). When my camera focuses a point (object) and I use live view to zoom into the focus point (center), it remains out-of-focus. I have to manually rotate the focus ring to bring it in focus. But that does not explain why I am getting a good shot with my highest sharpness setting. Anyone have this issue?



Apr 09, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Lance Couture
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


dhphoto wrote:
I have to say, to me this is a clear case of user error.

Your shutter speed is too low, you are not properly focused on your subject, you are using the softest possible picture style and you won't use RAW.

Not much wrong with the gear IMHO, digital slrs are good, but they aren't magical yet

David


I have to agree with David.

105mm, f4, 500 ISO, 1/25

First off, try to stay away from "in-between" ISO numbers like 500, 640, etc. More often than not they cause image degradation, in my experience. Stick to 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600 (and 3200 if you are inclined to do so). For your sample shots, I would have started at 1600, then bumped my shutter speed up two stops.

If you're shooting at 105mm, you should be shooting at something faster than 1/25th. If I recall, the 24-105 IS is good for three stops of help, which *should* mean that one can hand-hold the camera down to 1/15th, but in my experience, you have to be very well-practiced and using good technique to be handholding 1/15th shots.

If you were to follow the 1/focal length rule, then you should be shooting this scene at 1/125th. Given you have a 1.6 crop sensor, your shutter speed more accurately should have been 1/(105 x 1.6) = 1/168! At 1/125th, with IS, you should have a stable picture. I would think that you could even get down to 1/60th, but that would be pushing it for a beginner, imo.

Digital images need to be sharpened. If you are in the field, on a deadline, I can understand having your camera sharpening set high, with custom tone settings, so you can just send your images by wire and be done with it. However, for most of us who are not under an editorial gun, I would suggest you use the Neutral Picture Style, set your sharpening to zero for JPG, or even better - start using RAW, and learn to post-process your images (there is a whole forum here on Post Processing filled with some outstanding people who are very happy to help).

Another thing I might suggest is selecting the center auto-focus point, and if you wish to recompose the picture, do so. At f/4 (the fastest the 24-105 goes) on a crop sensor, you shouldn't have too many issues with focus plane issues if you use the "focus, lock, recompose" technique.

Try these things and get back to us.





Apr 09, 2009 at 11:45 AM
sath2003
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


Thanks for all your feedback. Please bear with me as I post pictures of each of the method you have suggested.

This post is for the camera shake some users have said. Below are the pictures with tripod with only center focus and its crop. I have reduced the aperture to f9 and increased ISO to have 1/60 shutter speed. IS was off due to tripod mount.

Neutral (24mm, f9, 1250 ISO, 1/60)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3387/3426399281_1100cd5754_b_d.jpg

Highest Sharpness (24mm, f9, 1250 ISO, 1/60)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3407/3426400195_5d92a80061_b_d.jpg

Neutral 100% Crop at Center
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3600/3427209606_cd6b652278_o_d.jpg

Highest Sharpness 100% crop at Center
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3357/3426400237_bd34494bd9_o_d.jpg


Let me know your feedback.



Apr 09, 2009 at 01:10 PM
Lance Couture
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


The first shot and crop look fine to me.

The second shot and crop have very obvious sharpening artifacts.

So, based on what you have shown here, I would say you just need to get out and practice shooting more, and learn how to post-process correctly. Your camera and lens are just fine.




Apr 09, 2009 at 01:35 PM
dhphoto
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


Lance Couture wrote:
The first shot and crop look fine to me.

The second shot and crop have very obvious sharpening artifacts.

So, based on what you have shown here, I would say you just need to get out and practice shooting more, and learn how to post-process correctly. Your camera and lens are just fine.



+1

Don't forget, with the Neutral Picture Style you have no sharpening at all, that is going to make even the sharpest lens look ordinary at best

I honestly don't think this is a gear problem, more a lack of experience

David



Apr 09, 2009 at 01:43 PM
sath2003
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


bpark42 wrote:
I would turn the sharpness up a couple notches from the default in the Neutral style, but not all the way up.

Show us a test with a controlled scene, taken on a tripod, with a very clear and large main subject. Use center AF point only. Then, to be thorough use maginified live view to dial focus in yourself and snap a second shot. That way you test both autofocus and camera sharpness.

The easiest subject would probably be something like a lens box used in the comparisons above. Keep the plane of the surface of the box parallel to the
...Show more

Below is the controlled scene. I did not use the tripod but used the table as my support. IS was off. I used the neutral style with sharpness at 4 (middle). The camera was set to focus only at center.

Camera Focus (24mm, f9, ISO 1250, 1/80)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3562/3426637963_4f7edc551f_b_d.jpg

Live View + Manual Focus (24mm, f9, ISO 1250, 1/80)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3544/3427447660_04f2779e6b_b_d.jpg

Camera Focus Center Crop
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3537/3426638713_c9bce1a40e_o_d.jpg

Live View + Manual Focus Crop
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3388/3427447700_15fc9986b9_o_d.jpg


I dont know if it is very clear but there is a slight difference and to my eyes alteast the live view + manual focus has image little sharp than the other. Let me know what you all think.



Apr 09, 2009 at 03:04 PM
sath2003
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · Canon 40D sharpness issue


mulengak wrote:
Sath,

Try taking your test subject at f/2.8 and f/8.0 (Keep the same ISO and focal length) compare the results and then post the images here. You might want to consider using a tripod.


I dont want to upload the full picture but here are the crops. There was no change to the ISO and focal length. Since you wanted f2.8, I had to use my 50/1.4. I used f9 instead of f8 hope you dont mind. The image was taken using my table and no tripod.

Neutral f2.8 (50mm, ISO 1250, 1/2000)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/3427502970_175b165252_o_d.jpg

High Sharp f2.8 (50mm, ISO 1250, 1/1600)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3332/3427502924_2668e7e6c9_o_d.jpg

Neutral f9 (50mm, ISO 1250, 1/200)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3365/3427502952_d86512eb39_o_d.jpg

High Sharp f9 (50mm, ISO 1250, 1/200)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3300/3426694231_3e45d5997a_o_d.jpg


Any conclusions?



Apr 09, 2009 at 03:33 PM
1              3       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account