p.3 #1 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
Right, I understand and agree with you, Sam. I just find it more than a little curious that the d700 is having issues with the lens and I wonder why. A lot of folks are buying the lens and I'm not seeing many reports on folks having issues with it.
It could be, and probably is, that most are not d700 users. That at least some d700s are having issues with the lens is a shame. I quite like it on both the d700 and d300, but I'm not having issues on anything but stuff at MFD with the d700. That's with the d700 fine tune adjustment though. Without the fine tune feature, I'd have sent it back and got the nikkor.
p.3 #3 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
Kerry Pierce wrote:
It could be, and probably is, that most are not d700 users. That at least some d700s are having issues with the lens is a shame. I quite like it on both the d700 and d300, but I'm not having issues on anything but stuff at MFD with the d700. That's with the d700 fine tune adjustment though. Without the fine tune feature, I'd have sent it back and got the nikkor.
I'm hearing issues from Canon users as well, so I doubt it is limited to D700 users. I think part of the reason you probably don't hear a lot of complaints is that front-focusing can be a subtle problem. With back focusing, it's more apparent that there's an issue since it's easy to tell where the focus plane is actually lying. With front focusing, you're more likely to end up with a sense that the lens is simple "unsharp", because the focus plane is not always obvious. The reason I was noticing it in my shooting was because I was shooting my dogs and when I was focusing on their eyes, you could see where the focus plane was by looking at their snouts.
It's possible that the Sigma's tendency to front focus is actually part of its appeal, and part of the reason people like it. Having a technically perfect lens is great from one perspective, but not everyone likes "tack sharp" images. Some of my favorite photos are slightly out of focus - it can be a pleasing effect.
p.3 #4 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
I just ran my lens through the test and I had to run about +7 into the camera to get good focusing on the lens. I hope this doesn't decrease in value over the years. I hope it works well on the D700. I might end up getting one from my photo cage and seeing how much it is off on the D700. Where do you send it if its need to be calibrated? Sigma's Repair place?
p.3 #5 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
My test- (and real shooting-) results were all over the place until I had the body (D700) calibrated - full worth.
That means: main mirror angle (45º) - submirror angle (47-point-somethingº) - focus screen shimming - AF sensor adjustment against fixed collimator lens..
Before this, my lenses gave me some really contradictory results - now everything is fine. Knowing how Nikon's AF system works, some of the results I saw earlier had me really scratching my head, now the worst I have is +5 on my (borrowed) 105AFS, and that seems to work all over the lens' focus range.
As far as I understand it, AFS lenses are only half-closed loops from a control perspective, this gives some AF speed gains when shooting moving targets or as in Nikon's predictive mode focus. A fully closed loop mode would mean that a lens would never have to be calibrated, all motor control would be in the camera body.
But AFAIK the only thing that is calibrated in a Nikon F (-S) lens is the infinity point and MFD point signal values (well, zoom position too - but that's highly unlikely), unlike the Canon EF system which has ~8 or 10 different points of calibration including mass errors, system slack and so on... But the Canon system is fully open loop when in "single-focus" mode - according to mr Westfall at least. This makes it theoretically "faster", but also more sensitive to production errors.
The only way to produce a result where:
a. focus point changes significantly with aperture
b. focus point is more off at far than close distance or vice versa
c. micro-calibration in camera gives you inconsistent results at far/near distances
- all at once - is if BOTH the camera and the lens is out of calibration.
It seems (I don't know) that the in-camera calibration affects both the unmodified value (from the AF-sensor) and the step value (given to the lens). This is the only way I can explain some of the weird behaviors I saw when trying to calibrate my lenses before having the body calibrated.
Sam - Could you try (micro-calibrating and using) the Siggy in AF-C mode in stead? This will (mostly) remove the lens calibration from the equation. If this works - send it back. Either for a refund or a calibration.
p.3 #6 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
Well, this morning made clear one of the reasons I'll be keeping the 50G - the weather sealing. Went out early this morning to take photos in the snow - the Sigma went off, the weather-sealed lenses went on. Hopefully I won't regret this in a few months. (NOTE: Vignetting was added to these shots for effect)
p.3 #9 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
Nice pictures and good comparison between the two.
Funny that few realize this lens represents the gestalt of 50mm Nikkors. The 50mm nikkor has been specifically designed to be very sharp and have a certain harshness to the bokeh to make the subject matter pop. This character was and is admired by a lot. The best Nikkor 50mm which is the non AI version was the one which started this. Before this lens Nikkors were based on sonnars and then they moved to planar modification. In between the 50mm Nikkors were designed with an edge to sharpness that made the bokeh unpleasant but they have toned down that a bit in the G version and tried for a balance between sharpness and bokeh smoothness.
If you really want to see the drastic difference between the sigma and nikkor try shooting a subject with multiple point sources of light in the background. you can easily see the difference in bokeh, where the nikkor produce a very harsh bokeh. It is basically a personal preference.
p.3 #10 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
plasticmoz wrote:
Great thread, thanks Sam.
My biggest issue is I can't find a place to buy the new 1.4G, and I've been looking
Try www.eplevine.com. They're in Boston but they can ship out to anywhere. I picked up a new 50G from them last week. Good operation. They claim to have had six of them in stock. Not sure if the have any left at this point...but it's worth a call !
p.3 #11 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
Thanks for the heads-up, supposedly they sold out pretty quick and say it may take 4-6 weeks to get back in stock. If anyone else has any leads, I'd appreciate it.
Jan 20, 2009 at 02:34 PM
DavidWEGS Offline [X]
p.3 #12 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
Thanks for that follow up Sam. I have two of the Sigmas and had thought about getting the Nikon for faster AF (this was before it was on shelves and being tested) but it has shown not to be any faster.
Unlike your "EX"perience. I have had a 105 Sigma for years and had no issues. I hope these lenses last as well.
Another hope I had for the NIkkor was a better (if that's possible) bokeh. Again this was not to be.
So, I guess that since I my use is largely between 1.6 and 2, I will keep the Sigmas and leave the Nikkor alone.
Thanks again, D.
Jan 20, 2009 at 06:21 PM
DavidWEGS Offline [X]
p.3 #13 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
Kerry Pierce wrote:
Right, I understand and agree with you, Sam. I just find it more than a little curious that the d700 is having issues with the lens and I wonder why. A lot of folks are buying the lens and I'm not seeing many reports on folks having issues with it.
It could be, and probably is, that most are not d700 users. That at least some d700s are having issues with the lens is a shame. I quite like it on both the d700 and d300, but I'm not having issues on anything but stuff at MFD with the d700. That's with the d700 fine tune adjustment though. Without the fine tune feature, I'd have sent it back and got the nikkor.
Kerry, I have two of the Sigmas and almost as soon as they arrived, sent them to Sigma for service. I was pleased to find them consistent upon their return though they both need a +5 to be just about perfect. And this is across four bodies currently D300's and D700's.
I would recommend that anyone getting the Sigma immediately send it back to Sigma for calibration and tell them the Cameras you use it on. This has worked for me so far.
p.3 #14 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
Interesting thought, David. At this point, I see no need to send mine for service. Mine is a +5 fine tune on the d700 and 0 on the d300. It's working fine and I enjoy shooting it more than I do my 50 f/1.4d. There's nothing wrong with the nikon, but unlike many others here, I like a lens that has some heft to it. The size of the sigma, along with the IQ it delivers, makes it a little more enjoyable for me to use.
edit: I'd add that I concur with your positive experiences with sigma lenses in general. I have several EX lenses, some going back 5 years. I've only had a problem with one, a bigma, that required service.
p.3 #15 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
I refuse to buy a lens that needs that much work to make it focus accurately.
1. It is rediculous to send a lens you just bought brand new in for service because it front- or back-focuses, once okay, but with every copy of the lens?
2. Nikon only gives the user focus adjustment on the pro-bodies. You are out of luck with a D90, etc. I also can't adjust its mis-focus on my film bodies
p.3 #17 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
I can't say ALL as Ulrik did, but between these two 50's, the AFS was the one that still needed micro-adjustment after the body was calibrated, not the Sig. No other lenses were off by enough to make me worry - except for the borrowed 105Macro I mentioned earlier. It might also just be that the working distance is so short on what I use that lens for (not macro-proper, but close...), that any error shows without mercy.
I'm sure you'll get many good shots out of that AFS50 you chose to keep - nice shots in the near-dark snow Sam. Looks cold... I am still looking for gloves that tread the fine line between being warm enough and thin enough to not hinder your use of the camera controls...
I think they're technically "liners", but they've got grippy tips and are thin enough that you can still "feel" the camera. Not the warmest, but it's a good balance. I originally got them for driving with the top down when it's cold out, but they've been great for shooting with.
p.3 #19 · Another Sigma 50/1.4 vs. Nikkor 50/1.4G Thread
Thanks again for this thread Sam -- I went ahead and ordered the Sigma, primarily because the Nikon isn't available and when it does re-surface I am sure it will be more expensive from what I've told.
Seems that the lenses have their pros and cons but are very similar.
Paid $420 for the Sigma and hope to play around with it next week.
(NOTE: Vignetting was added to these shots for effect)
Love it!
