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Archive 2008 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600

  
 
Will Patterson
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p.3 #1 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Weddings. It's a must have.


Dec 29, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Pondria
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p.3 #2 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


The responses are very insightful. OK, the subjects or lighting situations have not gotten worse, right ? The weddings have been done in the similar lighting condition all the time. Churches in Europe were not any brighter. Athletes were not much slower in the past. High school Gyms have not gotten worse.....
It is just that photographers had to live with the compromises and now that they finally got the tool that they need ( and yet enough ). Is that a right status ?


Edited on Dec 29, 2008 at 10:35 PM · View previous versions



Dec 29, 2008 at 10:32 PM
damkader
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p.3 #3 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


I shoot events and some sports and need it to maintain shutter speed or get added DOF


Dec 29, 2008 at 10:34 PM
AJSJones
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p.3 #4 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Birds are often best photographed (most active) around dawn and dusk. (Lose a few stops)
Birds are often in the trees , not uncommonly in the shadows . (Lose a few more stops, especially in rain forests as noted)
Birds are still active on overcast days. In fact, you get better shots with a lower DR (Another couple or so)
Birds are often at quite some distance so long lenses and therefore short exposures are needed. (I think you get the point )



Dec 29, 2008 at 10:44 PM
dst.zero
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p.3 #5 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Seems like I use 1600 or higher @ <f/2.0 at least half or more of the time... I dont see how anyone could not need it at all. Why would you want to limit your style and restrict yourself from all the possible shots that could only be obtained in available light at high ISO?


Dec 29, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Mike Ip
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p.3 #6 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Indoor sports usually ISO 1600, but for high school ISO 3200 - and at times I'm under exposing because the 6400 is a little too noisy for me.

I shoot a lot of low light - available stuff such as bars, outdoor night stuff. In the past year I have shot ISO 6400, 1.2, 1/60 shots.



Dec 29, 2008 at 10:53 PM
irieweasel
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p.3 #7 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Absolutely for wedding photography. Also for lots of clubs I have shot in. E.g. I have run into multiple churches where they will not allow/do not want flash. Most are fine, but you do once in a while and w/o high ISO I'd be done for.

That said, ISO 3200 on my 5D (and even my 1Ds2) does the job well enough. Lower noise is nice, but I'm fine with them adding/improving other features (aside from MP) if Canon wants to refocus their efforts. =]



Dec 29, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Cliff L.
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p.3 #8 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


e) None of the above (as in, don't need it)


Dec 29, 2008 at 11:16 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #9 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Weddings and corporate events (where receptions at each are essentially very similar) and nighttime sports or indoor sports.

High ISO capability on current DSLRs reminds me of the feeling I had back in the late 80s when TMZ first hit the market. Sure, you could always use Tri-X or HP5 pushed, but TMZ seemed to open up a range of opportunities with better quality than previously existed. I feel the same way now with the Mark III at 3200/6400 for available light wedding work, events, parties, whatever... coupled with f/1.2 or f/1.4 lenses because it is a feasible option. Recent wedding ceremonies have been in the ISO 3200 1/200 f/1.2 range with receptions at around 1/50 f/1.2. I will still strobe receptions for shots that need the entire hall lit, to freeze motion or ensure a clean shot, but it's great to have the option to work discretely and preserve ambience for other types of images. Having usable high ISO adds options to better tailor coverage on an event by event basis.

Locations have not gotten worse or changed. High ISO, as mentioned, realizes options previously not considered possible or realistic. It can make the difference between working a wedding ceremony quickly hand held or slowly on a tripod, or having to use on camera flash with the inherent WB imbalance and dark background or subject movement ghosting issues. When I shot color neg film, like Fuji 800 for wedding ceremonies, it was always with on camera flash and f/2.8 lenses to ensure the ability to freeze subject motion while still pulling up some ambient in the background. Now with good high ISO and an investment in fast primes (I find I don't miss the 2.8 zooms in the normal/tele range for weddings) I can achieve those requirements while maintaining a truer look of the venue in its natural light. Several weddings this year, including one in August when you'd expect decent light, were rained out. When outdoor opportunities were present, the light was often poor and I relied heavily on ISO 1600.

For sports work, I've been trying to get away with f/4 lenses, even at night games. An advantage to f/4 lenses, like Canon's 70-200 is a reduction in size and weight, or longer reach like a 600 vs. 400. Don't just take my word for it, here's a great example by David Bergman (of SI, recently switched to the D3 like the majority of the SI shooters) who has been covering night football games with the 200-400 and 600 combo:

Quote: "As for lens selection - it really depends on what you’re shooting. The 600/4 is my main football lens. The 200-400 is extremely versatile and would be great for basketball, tennis, and even baseball if you’re only shooting the infield.

With the D3’s performance in low light, I’ve been able to stick with F4 lenses instead of pulling out the 400/2.8."

http://www.davidbergman.net/blog/2008/12/18/1304-photos-from-the-2008-sec-championship-game/

While the sports venues have not necessarily gotten darker, there have at times been issues with access, such as farther working distances, or just too crowded and the need to either work from one spot for most coverage or move to less popular spots (though my favorite) like the end zone to get away from the crowds. Being able to work longer and at f/4 at a high ISO is critical.

Ron

I also want to add that one of my sports clients never, ever covered night/indoor games prior to digital. As soon as the 1D became available and they saw the results compared to E6 pushed two stops, night/indoor games started appearing on the schedule. Now with excellent ISO 1600, nearly half the games I covered this year were indoor. And it's not just the low noise/grain. Dynamic range/shadow detail compared to +2 E6 is so much better and WB is a piece of cake.


Edited on Dec 29, 2008 at 11:35 PM · View previous versions



Dec 29, 2008 at 11:21 PM
Photon
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p.3 #10 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Pondria wrote:
The responses are very insightful. OK, the subjects or lighting situations have not gotten worse, right ? The weddings have been done in the similar lighting condition all the time. Churches in Europe were not any brighter. Athletes were not much slower in the past. High school Gyms have not gotten worse.....
It is just that photographers had to live with the compromises and now that they finally got the tool that they need ( and yet enough ). Is that a right status ?

Sure, we survived with lower ISO. Some shots couldn't be done, or blur was accepted, or very grainy b&w was ok, etc. Even a quick look through magazines from, say, forty years ago will show the huge difference in the kinds of shots that were expected from very dark situations.

Edit: Ron's post above (done around the same time as mine) lays out perfect examples.



Dec 29, 2008 at 11:21 PM
sivrajbm
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p.3 #11 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Weddings & some events


Dec 29, 2008 at 11:27 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #12 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Thanks Jess. Your comment is much more concise. It reminded me of a discussion I had with a colleague who photographed weddings about 20-30 years ago with Mamiya TLR cameras. For example, the bride walking down the aisle was a single frame opportunity captured with harsh on camera flash and prefocused. If she blinked or looked away at that moment, too bad for her. The coverage was extremely staged and the photographer dominated the couple's attention for much of the day.

So while high ISO allows images that weren't technically possible in the past, perhaps more importantly IMO, it allows photographers to adapt event coverage in ways that are less intrusive and more enjoyable/true for the client (thinking specifically of weddings here). Therefore the client benefit in more ways than one...



Dec 29, 2008 at 11:47 PM
David Baldwin
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p.3 #13 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Yes, I definitely need high ISOs, the trick is finding a digital camera that can deliver them without banding in the shadows!

Here's a couple of examples at 3200 from my film days:

http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/la02.html
http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/la05.html

I could personally use ISO 25000 no problem at all!



Dec 30, 2008 at 06:07 AM
J Andersen
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p.3 #14 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


I often need it as I like low light photography (dusk, dawn, night life etc.) and also for indoor shots. On the D30 I use 3200 only when there is no other way because of the quality issue while I find ISO 1600 and 800 much more usable. But I could definitely use higher than 3200 if quality was good.


Dec 30, 2008 at 06:58 AM
Seth Tower
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p.3 #15 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Landscape shooters will probably unanimously say they never use it for their work. Wedding shooters (especially natural light guys like myself) use high ISO all the time. In fact, anything indoors (without flash) requires a relatively high ISO.


Dec 30, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Gochugogi
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p.3 #16 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Pondria wrote:
The responses are very insightful. OK, the subjects or lighting situations have not gotten worse, right ? The weddings have been done in the similar lighting condition all the time. Churches in Europe were not any brighter. Athletes were not much slower in the past. High school Gyms have not gotten worse.....
It is just that photographers had to live with the compromises and now that they finally got the tool that they need ( and yet enough ). Is that a right status ?


Actually, when I lived with ISO 100-400 film, the compromise was usually not to take available light pictures after twilight. I simply put my camera away when flash and tripods weren't allowed.



Dec 30, 2008 at 12:39 PM
brainiac
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p.3 #17 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


Night is half the year, and shooting people at night relies on (a) flash or (b) high iso. Flash can be intrusive and it is often samey, expelling much of the atmosphere of a place or time or picture. It's not just wedding photographers, it's travel/news/war/fashion/sport/documentary/astro/forensic and about a hundred other types of photographer for whom these high isos open up a whole new world. If it doesn't matter to you, cool, but why vote to spoil everyone else's fun... oh, wait, scrub that, now I get it.


Dec 30, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Grant808
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p.3 #18 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


I need it so we can stop arguing about f/2.8 vs. f/4IS lenses

High ISO is a feature and one I like to use often...so I voted 'need'. Weddings, night/street, landscape, lunar(dark side)...all better with high quality high ISO.

EDIT: More importantly, I like the option to stop down. High ISO lets me choose to compose the shot the way *I* want to.



Dec 30, 2008 at 01:09 PM
Imagemaster
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p.3 #19 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


I would have to say that anyone who does not think that ISO's beyond 1600 are desirable or advantageous, either does not know much about photography or does not do much wildlife or sports photography.

Higher ISO's allow the photographer to use higher shutter speeds and/or smaller apertures. There are numerous times when lighting is simply too low to get the photo without the use of a tripod or flash, which in most cases are not an option. Higher ISO's are the only solution in these cases.



Dec 30, 2008 at 01:18 PM
Matt Kerby
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p.3 #20 · Do you need High ISO beyond 1600


I live in Seattle, it's dark here 6 months out of the year, I don't like shoting with flash, so hell, I use 3200-6400 just to get the shot.


Dec 30, 2008 at 01:20 PM
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