I agree you should always do your best, no matter what price point you charged. How else can you grow if you never push yourself?
I don't *fully* believe that $500'ers are destroying the industry. Not everyone has a dream wedding, not everyone can *afford* to hire at a decent photographer's rate.
I started out doing assistant work for crap pay through a bridal consignment shop. The biggest package was a pathetic $1800 for full coverage and TWO photographers.
I was young and foolish, but it provided a good learning ground. Very cut and dry operation; show up, shoot, leave, edit, toss prints on a cd for the shop owner, get a check. That was all I was responsible and liable for.
I could see the argument that if people see the lower price, they start questioning the higher price more. I got that in sales a lot, its what most of the general public does.
I could see it going beyond that, people jumping into a $500 wedding package for their big extravagant wedding, then being horribly disappointed that the schmuck that just got out of high school that shot their wedding failed to capture the full beauty of the ceremony; leading to even more problems.
However, I dont see that as being so common it creates a collapse. Here and there, yes, but not in high demand. Oddly enough, some people I see on myspace advertising cheap weddings and portraits, are the ones that are hurting for work because they can't get anyone to book them. I guess 2 sides to that coin
Lucky_Dog wrote:
Except you only get to work a couple dozen days a year…
Somewhere the amount of time to land the job, shoot it, process it, and get the disk to the client need to be entered in. As well as, insurance, travel, utilities, rent, advertising, etc…. the folks doing cheap weddings are screwing themselves *and* the industry.
I'm assuming it's not the only source of income. Say you're a freelance its not a bad day rate if your clients are simply buying less photography as if happening massively in the downturn. Someone I know is actually doing restuant shifts after averaging around £800 week in 2007. Advertising spends are dropping massively. A magazine I work for is starting to use PR photos and microstock for spreads that would have had commissioned photography a year or two ago. If the ads revenue drops corners get cut.
Some people want dump-to-disc weddings and full print rights for not much money. Obviously, the low end isn't the place to be in almost any endeavour but for a part-timer dump-to-disc cuts down on a lot of time and admin.
We started the same way. In fact, we started at free. You can't get much lower paid than that. It gave us what we needed to do our first bridal show. I have received many referrals from those brides and their friends paid a lot more. Congrats on getting your business off the ground. Yvette
jcolman wrote:
Everyone who started in the wedding photography business and who charged $1500 or more on their first gig please raise their hands.
This question should be asked every time someone else complains about the $500 wedding shooter "wrecking the industry". It seems the once you've "made it" you forget how much you charged when you started.
Way to go on your start, I began with a $200 split between myself and bestfriend/roomie for my first one and we each shot aprox 1k images... I've learned quite a bit and it's been several years since then, but that was probably one of my favorite weddings still since we spent about 10hrs with the couple. Were I to do that now I'd charge aprox 2k+ for just myself and my wife as an assistant.
However if I have a $500 gig come up and that's what they want to pay I don't mind doing that at all, my normal cheapest price is 1k but if it's the difference between getting a client and not I'd rather have the income; doing my best on each and every shoot.
Well, I'm not a French speaker either. But I found "noveau" as an alternate spelling, and liked it more than "nouveau". Figured people would question the spelling either way, and my way had less letters.
Do you like it? I switched from a more generic name, Images of Distinction, to Studio Noveau this month. So far the feedback has been pretty good, but it is a bit tough to re-brand after a year as a certain name. At least it's not 5 years +!
Lucky_Dog wrote:
Dude, I don't come to forums to argue with people. Been there, done that...
If you don't see how performing a service, that *should* cost thousands, for $500 harms the industry then there isn’t much else to say. If the $500 option were not there, they would find a way to pay for photography – trust me, they wouldn’t go without. Anybody that can afford to have a “formal” wedding reception can, and will, find a way to pay for photography *if* it has value to them…. they could serve pizza or sandwiches to their guests to save money, too, but they usually don’t….
No offense but what a bull, if Ford wouldn't make cars everyone would drive Ferrari
Think not. My wedding costed $2500 TOTAL. granted grandma payed for the reception location and we dragged booze and snacks from the stores.Had a nice dinner in a decent restaurant with 35 guests and had uncle bob and the likes take pictures, with the promise they give us all images on disc.
Whether you believe it or not there are people who can not afford $1000's for a wedding let alone $1000's for just a fancy album and some pics and some people just don't give a crap and rather spend their money elsewhere. In the end it's just a fancy album and some fancy pics it doesn't add anything to, or change my memories of the day, the way i feel about my wife or my wedding. If you really feel threatened by the uncle bob's and $500 photographers, I suggest you take a good look at your business model and the world around you
I charged $300 for my first wedding - it was me or they wouldn't have had a photographer. I know you've all heard that before, but it was true. I was upfront with them about everything. The only images I had to show them were pictures of my kids and horses. Seriously. I cringe so bad thinking back on that. The $300 paid for the SB-800 I bought for the wedding. I got some good shots and they were happy, but man I see so many things I did wrong!
I went UP to $500 and on up. I still feel like the enemy here as I am now only charging $1000 - To me to say 'only' seems ridiculous as I still can't believe that someone would pay me to take photos of them!
By the way - my wedding cost $1500 - 14 years ago. Wedding photographer was my Industrial Art teacher from High School and cost $350. I know the mind of the low budget bride. We made the decision that we were not going to go into debt to pay for our wedding.
PS: I joined the APP of Illinois and went to the convention this fall. It was great to talk to some of the other photographers and go to the seminars and go through the trade show. BUT: The meeting was one great big whine session about the "Digital Debbies, Soccer moms who buy a rebel and think they can do photography" It was a pretty big turn off to me and some of the other newbies there. After the meeting we had lunch and I was at a table with all of these people I didn't know and they were asking me questions and making conversation - I said well: "My name is not Debbie, my kids don't play soccer and I don't use a Canon" it got a laugh, but the whole experience was uncomfortable enough that I am not sure if I will go back next year.
They also discussed making a committee to looking to seeing if the Government could start issuing licenses to photographers.
I did learn a lot from the weekend, but I was of a mind that I was trying to improve myself and be more accepted by other photographers - but came out of it feeling pretty uncomfortable.
Is the only way to be accepted to charge thousands of dollars?
Okay, I am wrong... you all should shoot and burn for $500.
Seriously, first weddings excluded, I was unable to book any weddings until I raised my price. Many brides don't take a $500 photographer seriously.
My main point is that once the expected price is driven down, it's hard to bring it back up... and it would be a shame if there were no opportunities for full time photography gigs because folks can't make a living wage.
My intent is not to disrespect anyone, and I fully understand the attraction to make extra side money from a beloved hobby... however, some are doing this as a legitimate business and it may be their only income. For me, it's a respect issue, as well as, understanding the actual total costs associated with the job at hand. I'm still not charging enough to cover all the expenses and capture a profit commensurate with the amount of effort. YMMV.......
It's funny because I am on both sides of this coin. On the one side I am just starting my second career as a wedding shooter so I have no problem with the $500 weddings (well actually I do-my lowest rate is now $900 but my first and second weddings were $500) and I firmly belive that there will always be brides who simply can't or won't spend more than $1000 or less on their pictures.
On the other hand, my "real" job is producing videos--and not of the wedding variety. Our company won't bother bidding on anything coming from a Craigslist ad. Our budgets range from $5000 on the low side to about $70K on the higher end with most of our work in the $30k range. Heck, we just signed a $3.3 million dollar contract to produce six videos for one client.
We are a somewhat high end production facility with a staff of 13, and over a million $$$$ in equipment. Our clients expect to pay top dollar for their videos and to receive top value. The same holds true for the high end wedding shooters. Their clients expect to pay top dollar to receive top quality.
My whole point is there are small mom and pop video outfits by the dozens who take all the video work in the $500-$5000 range and we're more than happy to let them have it. They aren't hurting our business one bit.
The market for lower priced services will always be there and there will always be photographers/videographers willing to service these markets. The same holds true for the higher end markets. People will spend money based on their expectations of value and/or specific requirements.
jcolman wrote:
Everyone who started in the wedding photography business and who charged $1500 or more on their first gig please raise their hands.
$1295 four years ago.
There are two reasons for low prices - your market or your confidence.
Shitty work should not be charged for - the "i'm not very good so it's only $500" is a crock of shit IMO. If you are that bad then don't charge at all. Hey, I suck at hair cuts but for $5 I'll give you one! Do you really want me to give you a haircut?
It's hard to tell the new person to charge going rates for their area when they have no confidence. So shoot for free till you feel confident you can do the job. Call me - you can second shoot for free all you want - and even get some instruction and critique!
What, you're too good to work for free? Then you have an attitude problem. It's part and parcel that students work for free - internships, externships and the like are often free or minumum wage. I know lots of folks that pay tens of thousands of dollars to learn how to do a job/profession. And you won't shoot 5 weddings for free? Dude, it's digital - it's just your time and a disk. Your cost is what, 50 hours for 5 weddings? If you won't invest 50 hours in your craft / career / business then you don't deserve to be successful.
If the real market for wedding photography in your area (and I don't mean the craigslist market) is $500 then you won't make a living. Period.
What are you worth? Ignore that overstated line.
How good are you? How good are your photographs? As good as they guy getting $2500? $1500? $4500? Then why are you not charging that price too?
CONFIDENCE. You lack the confidence in yourself. And no one can give it to you. Success it totally up to you then, isn't it?
There are two reasons for low prices - your market or your confidence.
Shitty work should not be charged for - the "i'm not very good so it's only $500" is a crock of shit IMO. If you are that bad then don't charge at all. Hey, I suck at hair cuts but for $5 I'll give you one! Do you really want me to give you a haircut?
It's hard to tell the new person to charge going rates for their area when they have no confidence. So shoot for free till you feel confident you can do the job. Call me - you can second shoot for free all you want - and even get some instruction and critique!
What, you're too good to work for free? Then you have an attitude problem. It's part and parcel that students work for free - internships, externships and the like are often free or minumum wage. I know lots of folks that pay tens of thousands of dollars to learn how to do a job/profession. And you won't shoot 5 weddings for free? Dude, it's digital - it's just your time and a disk. Your cost is what, 50 hours for 5 weddings? If you won't invest 50 hours in your craft / career / business then you don't deserve to be successful.
If the real market for wedding photography in your area (and I don't mean the craigslist market) is $500 then you won't make a living. Period.
What are you worth? Ignore that overstated line.
How good are you? How good are your photographs? As good as they guy getting $2500? $1500? $4500? Then why are you not charging that price too?
CONFIDENCE. You lack the confidence in yourself. And no one can give it to you. Success it totally up to you then, isn't it?...Show more →
What you say may be true for many, especially those just starting out but confidence is something that I am not lacking. I've been around the block a few times, so to speak, when it comes to photography. What I am lacking ( or was) were the images to show a potential bride that I knew what I was doing. It's rather hard to convince someone that you know how to shoot a wedding when you don't have the proof.
So what I did was to book a couple of $500 weddings where the brides took a chance with me. I never once thought about shooting for free. Why? Because I'm too good at what I do to give it away.
As my wedding skills continue to improve, my rates will go up. Right now I have two weddings under my belt. (one as primary and one as a second shooter) I have two more booked for the spring and a few potentials. I no longer offer $500 wedding but my rates are still very low, compared to the average. By this time next year, my rates will probably be up around $1700 or more. Two years from now I'd like to be in the $3000 range and that will come with time and skill.
People say that "it's hard to raise your rates once you start low" but I feel that I have to be able to deliver the quality of a $3000 wedding photographer before I can charge those rates and I'm not quite there yet. It's not for a lack of confidence that I don't charge $3000...it's because I still have much to learn.
