According to the newly posted user manual for the 5D Mark II...
The sound is recorded in monaural by the camera's built-in microphone, Stereo recording is possible by connecting an external microphone equipped with a stereo mini plug to the external microphone IN terminal, the sound recording level will be adjusted automatically.
jray wrote:
.... since it has a 4 channel mode that allows 'sound-with-sound' recording, there is no reason a SMPTE LTC time code track could not be pre-recorded onto the H4's SD card...
It can't and doesn't need to. When in video mode it would record both channels, one of which contains LTC provided by the H4 via wireless, and the other can either be blank of contain a comment track for reference use during editing. This could be hard wired to a headset or be the second audio track on a wireless unit.
BTW, it's been ~25 years since I last had to deal with SMPTE for video/audio sync. It was for commercials shot in the field using cameras with 1" Saticon tubes and an Otari 1/2" 5050 8 track recorder. I can't even remember the editing stuff we used, but boxes with the names Ampex and Sony were all around. There were no computers and non-linear applications for editing back then (at least none you or I could afford), so everything relied on hardware. This is where there may be a way around some of the classic methods of doing things. I'm hoping a bit of fudge-factoring and out of the box methods might be an answer. Using a pre-recorded LTC track might a part of the solution. I hope. ...Show more →
10-4 didn't properly understand your 1st post regarding the H4 and radio transmitter to send t.c. to the Canon - clever solution!
Please update if you have a chance to try this setup
regarding SMPTE:
you were probably using boxes with names like Q-Lock or Adams-Smith, etc.
The fun part was having to mentally calculate different offsets for 29.97 drop, then watch the 24 track deck, offline video dub, and layback master all start shuttling wildly to different addresses when you hit "enter"
Take a look at the Sony PCM-D50. It's a quality product which has a pair of onboard stereo mics, as well as a 3.5mm stereo mic input, allowing you to connect a battery powered mic of your choice. This is a well built product, capable of recording very high quality audio. I have drug one of these units along in the field for several years and never had a problem. It runs on AA battries which is a huge benefit over units that use their own built-in rechargeable, power source, which is usually not end-user replaceable.
I recorded sound for picture for 37 years and, although I have been retired for 5, remember SMPTE timecode and audio protocols. The 5D Mk II's specifications (apparently) indicate CD quality audio with Automatic Level Control (gross, arbitrary and unnatural sounding level control).
So, unless you can defeat (or record below) the automatic level control what you all are describing is "Cue Track" or "Guide Track" which is defined as sound directly related to what you are shooting but not of high enough quality to match the picture (which, as described elsewhere, is very high on a 5D Mk II). Guide track is vital to aid in replacement of spoken dialogue by ADR (automatic dialogue replacement) in later post production.
An on-camera microphone position is guaranteed to yield less than optimum sound quality because the mic is not close enough to the sound you are photographing (and too close to the sounds occurring at the camera).
An attempt to just "Simplify the Sound" recording with a single on-camera (stereo or mono) mic virtually guarantees Guide Track. That's because this could be thought of as the still equivalent of using a wide angle lens to capture BIF. That is lot's of everything you didn't want with a very little bit of what you do.
jray's careful diagram is just about what the Doctor ordered and has the potential for "Production Quality" recordings (audio with enough quality to be carried through the editing process and used with/in the released media). Specifically, jray has diagrammed a ''Double System" with "Guide Track" (production quality audio on separate media with, likely, guide track on the video media (hopefully accompanied with a timecode synchronization track).
The "Double System" is used today with digital media of 8+ audio tracks which allows individual "tracking" of talent (feeding each of their wireless lavalieres to an isolated track) as well as a production mix (on site mix of all, pertinent, tracks) and/or a stereo "capture" of the overall sound field occurring at the location.
As to MS and XY recording: both techniques mandate coincident (capsules stacked on top of one another) microphone location. Using simple "Matrix" equipment (transformers at the mic level and a simple 4 in 2 out mixer at the line level) you can mix/remix XY to MS and MS to XY and any increment inbetween from a mono only center to wide stereo.
Good audio can be more difficult to capture than video (while the profession of a "Production Mixer" can be so challenging that you never stop learning). If that wasn't true I wouldn't have been paid $1000/day and more for decades. I also had the help or 2 or more assistants (a "Boom Operator" (to suspend the mic above the talent) and a "Utility Sound Technician" (second boom, to wire up the talent with "wireless mics" etc.).
SoundHound wrote:
snip
As to MS and XY recording: both techniques mandate coincident (capsules stacked on top of one another) microphone location. Using simple "Matrix" equipment (transformers at the mic level and a simple 4 in 2 out mixer at the line level) you can mix/remix XY to MS and MS to XY and any increment inbetween from a mono only center to wide stereo.
snip
SoundHound -
My Mid-Side use is with studio recordings of solo and ensemble instruments:
2 questions for you
How often did you use stereo pickups on location?
How do you mix an XY signal to Sum/Diff (& vice-versa) when capsule orientation and pattern for each setup is different?
(assuming MS config of card + fig 8 and XY config of 2 cards, 90 degree angle between capsules)
pmp6 wrote:
With the impending arrival of the 5D2, do people have any stereo microphones that they would recommend? Thanks.
If you must buy a mic now, the stereo Rode fits in the hot shoe and is likely to be the most popular choice. Can be found for $180.
This mic is fine, but as soundhound explained it's best to have low expectations. When appropriate, music is going to be more pleasant than recorded audio.
A must have 5DII accessory for iphone users is the Iphone Clapboard. $2
There are loads of decent wav recording mics these days that don't cost a lot. Simply record audio as usual on the 5D and with the recorder. Ingest to FCP or whatever you use and then simply line up the waveforms. I sync up loads using different cams working this way and very rarely have to compensate much for drift.
If that's a problem use a powered electret that best suits, Rhode shotgun or maybe a tie clip. The audio is most likely to be decent on the 5D and these days most audio on even expensive shoots isn't that great with the fixing up being done in the dub, adr etc.
I've had a Zoom H4 for quite a while, and have just (today) upgraded to an Edirol R09HR (after closely examining the Zoom H2). A couple of points:
When running from AA batteries the H4's internal power supply introduces some hum and a beeping in sync with the flashing record light. I set up a Canon BP-511 holder and used a BP-511 as an external battery (it's not 9V, but it's enough). Longer life and no hum/beeps.
The H4 doesn't have a "hold" switch. I've often found the H4 stopped recording at some point when the record button was bumped.
The H4 has no concept of time. The H2 and R09HR timestamp their files (including apparently some internal timecode as well as just the start time) which makes managing the files and correlating with the appropriate stills/video much simpler.
The H4 will supply phantom power on its XLR inputs, and I used an adapter from Sound Professionals to convert this to the plug-in-power 1/8" socket used by mini mics. The H2 and R09HR supply this directly.
The preamps that handle external microphone input on the H2 are relatively noisy (internal mics are great though).
The H2/H4 originally only supported SD cards. Firmware updates have added SDHC support.
My own setup is the R09HR continually recording. When I start a video recording (with a G9, the 5D2, or whatever) I can use a click (even just a finger-snap) to sync them later.
Your suggestion of using a multi-track recorder and a sync code is very elegant, although it adds a bit too much hardware for my own use. The H4 should work well for this, as long as you're aware of the above issues.
I forgot to mention: the H4 stores its configuration in a file on the SD card. So after formatting a card you will need to go through the menus and reset everything the way you want. The R09HR stores this in internal memory.
I would suggest the Audio-Technica 825. It's an excellent stereo mic that comes with XLR cables only, but there is a 5 pin to 3.5mm stereo mini-jack cable available, a bit of searching on the web will discover these for you. The 825 is the same as the 822, but it will accept phantom power or line power from a field recorder or other audio capture device. I've use mine for quite a while connected to a Sony PCM-D50 and it's proven an excellent choice.
