Today I played for the first time with a 10-stop ND filter on the beach. I have been using 4x and 3x NDs for some time with good results, but was taken aback by the SIGNIFICANT color shift from the 10x beast. The filter is supposedly good quality, B+W #110. Is that normal? I thought that the whole purpose of a ND filter is that they don't cause color shifts.
I have yet to see an ND that's truly neutral. The Singh Ray MoSlo is the best I've seen so far, but even it is a bit shifty. Other filters have worse shifts, most often green or purple.
One way - the best way IMHO - to deal with it is to take a color checker shot with the filter, and then do a custom color calibration for that camera / filter combo. This can be done in new LR2 / ACR 4.4 much easier than before, but even before there were scripts that cold do it fairly well.
Same applies to polarizers, too, to a lesser degree.
Yeah, shits to colder colors sound about right, this is my past experience with both Hoya and B+W NDs. However, in this case I am getting warmer colors, A LOT warmer. I will try to post some samples tomorrow.
I've gotten some really weird purple/red shifts using two 3-stop Lee solid ND's stacked, but it doesn't always happen. And sometimes it only happens where I'm also using a graduated ND filter.
I would bet good money it's not the filter. Digital sensors and film react to low light with WB shifts. Shooting in Auto WB in digital is unpredictable in that situation. I shot Auto WB for years but lately I shoot everything using Daylight WB because that is a known quantity. Like film, it's always 5200 so I know what to expect and can adjust accordingly. Sometimes I'll choose not to adjust, depending of what I want to achieve. Buy a grey card - can get them for $8.00 and shoot one image with the card anywhere in the frame. Then use that to adjust your WB.
Bob Singh says that the B+W filters leak IR and that causes a magenta shift. the AWB corrects it somewhat by making everything look warmer. note that ND filters from other vendors leak IR even more than B+W. on top of all that, many ND filters are not neutral anyway and at least the B+W ones are on the warm side, based on my film experiences with them. again, my experience with other vendors is that they are worse than B+W.
Herb....
GroovyGeek wrote:
Yeah, shits to colder colors sound about right, this is my past experience with both Hoya and B+W NDs. However, in this case I am getting warmer colors, A LOT warmer. I will try to post some samples tomorrow.
this is IR leakage in a camera that is IR sensitive. that is why i won't use Lee or HiTech ND filters of any kind.
Herb...
floris wrote:
I've gotten some really weird purple/red shifts using two 3-stop Lee solid ND's stacked, but it doesn't always happen. And sometimes it only happens where I'm also using a graduated ND filter.
A HOT filter in your stack would resolve that issue, but I think they are only available as screw in filters. Its just an IR cut filter. Assuming any other heavy ND filter is going to have better IR cut capability is pretty silly.
jsuro wrote:
I would bet good money it's not the filter. Digital sensors and film react to low light with WB shifts. Shooting in Auto WB in digital is unpredictable in that situation. I shot Auto WB for years but lately I shoot everything using Daylight WB because that is a known quantity. Like film, it's always 5200 so I know what to expect and can adjust accordingly. Sometimes I'll choose not to adjust, depending of what I want to achieve. Buy a grey card - can get them for $8.00 and shoot one image with the card anywhere in the frame. Then use that to adjust your WB.
HerbChong wrote:
this is IR leakage in a camera that is IR sensitive. that is why i won't use Lee or HiTech ND filters of any kind.
Herb...
Hogwash. In a side by side test tonight, with two identical cameras and lenses, and identical exposures with daylight WB, stacked 3-stop GND and 4-stop ND, the Singh's had a magenta cast and the Lee and Hitech did not. The Singh 4-stop ND is being returned. And this has nothing to do wit IR. Modern cameras have IR filters, IR doesn't get through. I know, I shoot astro, where we want IR and dslrs are pitiful compared to dedicated astro cameras unless modified. You can see the difference just looking through the filters and I don't have an IR eye .
define modern. all the 6MP bodies leaked IR badly. i have dozens of shots that show IR leakage and it was easily figured out because i was testing ND filters at the time shooting the same scene with several different ND filter brands. B+W filters didn't leak any. all the HiTech did. IR leakage is much more variable than a magenta cast. to further confirm, i shot with an 87C filter attached to compare IR leakage. just because the body's IR filter is lousy doesn't mean it doesn't exist. HiTech ND filters are essentially transparent to IR. that IR leakage translates into sometimes radical color shifts if you have a body that leaks IR.
Herb...
jsuro wrote:
Hogwash. In a side by side test tonight, with two identical cameras and lenses, and identical exposures with daylight WB, stacked 3-stop GND and 4-stop ND, the Singh's had a magenta cast and the Lee and Hitech did not. The Singh 4-stop ND is being returned. And this has nothing to do wit IR. Modern cameras have IR filters, IR doesn't get through. I know, I shoot astro, where we want IR and dslrs are pitiful compared to dedicated astro cameras unless modified. You can see the difference just looking through the filters and I don't have an IR eye. ...Show more →
jsuro wrote:
Hogwash. In a side by side test tonight, with two identical cameras and lenses, and identical exposures with daylight WB, stacked 3-stop GND and 4-stop ND, the Singh's had a magenta cast and the Lee and Hitech did not. The Singh 4-stop ND is being returned. And this has nothing to do wit IR. Modern cameras have IR filters, IR doesn't get through. I know, I shoot astro, where we want IR and dslrs are pitiful compared to dedicated astro cameras unless modified. You can see the difference just looking through the filters and I don't have an IR eye.
I have to say that I'm dissapointed in my Singh ray 4stop Hard grad also .. What I've seen is a cast above and beyond the expected infrared colour shifts.. I personally think Lee are better than Singh Ray from the examples I have... I might buy a glass 10x just to see what they are like
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