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Archive 2008 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread

  
 
ulrikft
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p.96 #1 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Alas ulrifkt, apparently 50MP is the new 16MP so wake up and smell the coffee


How could I forget that:P Stupid me

I just get so insecure.. should i wait for the NEXT 5d in three years, stay with my 30d until then? will THAT be the camera where Canon will do do the feature-jump for real? Or will one always think like this when new cameras arrive, I should just stfu and get the 5d mkII.. OR should I maybe get a 1ds mark III? :P

Bah :P Someone shoot me



Sep 25, 2008 at 07:46 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.96 #2 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


ulri get the 5D II or due to the huge wait list wait for PMA to see what's announced.

Given the collapse of the global world economy is imminent we may get the 5D II for half-price in 3-6 months.



Sep 25, 2008 at 07:48 PM
ulrikft
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p.96 #3 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Pixel Perfect wrote:
ulri get the 5D II or due to the huge wait list wait for PMA to see what's announced.

Given the collapse of the global world economy is imminent we may get the 5D II for half-price in 3-6 months.


I'm on the waitlist right now, and i think that it is very unlikely that we'll get a new 5d-class or the mythical 3d at pma?

well, I'l have to think harder anyway, hard to decide!



Sep 25, 2008 at 07:57 PM
bobbytan
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p.96 #4 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Just making the point that ONE good AF point is all that you need .... and that even super-high-end DSLRs offer only 1 AF point.

And some people have reported that Canon DID tweak/improve the AF of the 5D II .... so at least give it a chance to proof itself instead of bitching and whining and complaining non-stop about it before anyone even had a chance to review and test it properly.

M Vers wrote:
What the heck does the S2 have anything to do with the 5DII? Is there a direct correlation I'm missing here? Or is this just a stab in the dark to get further off topic? And of course the 5D has better AF than the 20D--it should. On another note, the 5D was released in 2005, its now 2008 and Canon is basically going to tell the world that AF hasn't been improved in the mean time? Gimme a break. Stop trying to defend something that is otherwise defenseless.




Sep 25, 2008 at 07:58 PM
ulrikft
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p.96 #5 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


bobbytan wrote:
Just making the point that ONE good AF point is all that you need .... and that even super-high-end DSLRs offer only 1 AF point.

And some people have reported that Canon DID tweak/improve the AF of the 5D II .... so at least give it a chance to proof itself instead of bitching and whining and complaining non-stop about it before anyone even had a chance to review and test it properly.



Yes, focus-recompose is just bloody brilliant when shooting at f/1.2

:P




Sep 25, 2008 at 08:02 PM
bobbytan
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p.96 #6 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


BTW I am not trying to defend Canon. I am no Canon fan-boy. I just hate all this whining. It's getting very tiresome.


Sep 25, 2008 at 08:03 PM
bobbytan
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p.96 #7 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Yup .... tell this to the high-end consumers that the S2 is targeted to ... and tell this to Leica as well. For sure, I am not getting one.

ulrikft wrote:
Yes, focus-recompose is just bloody brilliant when shooting at f/1.2

:P





Sep 25, 2008 at 08:04 PM
digitalbug30d
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p.96 #8 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


wonders what people did before AF...how on earth did those old time photographers with their F-1s manage?...its silly to go on and on about the AF issue on a camera still in beta tests...I have a 30d it seems to work very well with its ancient AF I guess I am not so anal about a lil back focus/ front focus...as some or a pixel out of place here or there..


Sep 25, 2008 at 08:32 PM
simonella_viru
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p.96 #9 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


if the entire world were in a studio or if everything were static, then 1 a one-point AF system would be superb! as a matter of fact, even MF would be king.

but we're talking about something different here. we're talking about an unsatisfied strata of the canon camp that wanted a better AF system on the 5d II. we didn't get one, so that's that. gotta wait for the next iteration and even then we still might not get what we expect (i.e. d700).

it's not bitching- we're all here to debate, discuss, challenge and disagree. different photographers, different photographic requirements.

Edited on Sep 25, 2008 at 08:37 PM · View previous versions



Sep 25, 2008 at 08:35 PM
M Vers
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p.96 #10 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


bobbytan wrote:
Just making the point that ONE good AF point is all that you need .... and that even super-high-end DSLRs offer only 1 AF point.

And some people have reported that Canon DID tweak/improve the AF of the 5D II .... so at least give it a chance to proof itself instead of bitching and whining and complaining non-stop about it before anyone even had a chance to review and test it properly.



ONE good AF point may be all YOU need, but to the vast majority, it wouldn't cut it with the dull backside of a butter knife. If Canon wanted to improve the AF on the 5D it wouldn't be a tweaked version of the first 5D's AF system. There have been advances in Af since the release of the original 5D...surely the original was not beyond its time in AF performance and nor is it now. There is a possibility that it is better...but slightly better is garbage compared to what the opposition offers. Frankly I don't think one even has to wait to know that the differences are minute considering it is the same exact system in the first place--there is only so much you can tweak it, and if it were that much better I highly doubt Canon would say it was "tweaked" rather than saying, for example, it was highly improved.



Sep 25, 2008 at 08:35 PM
Yohan Pamudji
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p.96 #11 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Mel Gross wrote:
Did I say they made 35mm sensors? No, I didn't.

If you've been following this, you would have also seen my other posts that were very recently made. In them, I mentioned the 36 x 48mm sensors that Hassie, and Phase one ARE making. I said that they are 60 MP sensors. I also said that those sensors are twice the size of a 35mm FF sensor, and that therefor, it works out to a 30 MP 35mm FF sensor equivelent.


Ah, so I was supposed to read your OTHER posts. Thanks for clearing that up.

Lots of fuzzy math being thrown around regarding the upper limit of resolution before degradation occurs (not by you Mel, to be clear). Wish I could see definitive calculations on that, and even then that might not be all that useful since the ideal lens doesn't exist.



Sep 25, 2008 at 08:38 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.96 #12 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


ulrikft wrote:
I'm on the waitlist right now, and i think that it is very unlikely that we'll get a new 5d-class or the mythical 3d at pma?

well, I'l have to think harder anyway, hard to decide!


No PMA will announce new 1 series IMO



Sep 25, 2008 at 08:40 PM
rceres
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p.96 #13 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


People do know that the camera can actually be focused on only one focus plane at a time? What is the point of having many focusing points? Just makes the very small brain in the camera pick a focus spot that it prefers. For slower speed photography you get much better control of the actual focus plane by using the central focus point, recomposing and engaging your vastly larger and presumably smarter (than the camera) human brain that you have. At this point you can see through the view finder where the focal plane really is and evaluate if that is really where you want the focal plane. Then you can use that really cool ring around the outside of the lens barrel and change the focus! Amazing! Better yet, by actually considering the picture through the view finder before taking the picture you end up making a host of adjustments that often dramatically improve the shots! Also lots of tricks left over from shooting with the FD 85 1.2L to get exactly the right focus like sliding the focus in front of, through then behind the initial focus point to see how the look of the photo changes, and, best of all, the subtle forward backward motion of the body to minutely adjust the camera position just prior to shutter release to get the focus just right.

Better autofocus is for sissies. OK, ok, I'm just saying that to be obnoxious, I would take better autofocus if it was offered, and I do use autofocus on my 5D cause I'm lazy, but I would probably be a better photographer if I just left it off and ignored the tyranny of the camera's very small brain.) But making every design tradeoff for delivering the ultimate IQ at the lowest possible price was the most striking characteristic of the 5D and was a major reason that camera is so well regarded. Why is anybody surprised or disappointed that the 5DII ("destined evolution") follows exactly the same mold? If it did not follow the 5D best IQ for the dollar formula every professional, armature and wannabe wedding photographer on the internet would be complaining.



Sep 25, 2008 at 08:41 PM
Mel Gross
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p.96 #14 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Why would 99.9% of people need a 50MP camera 400MB 16 bit tiff files. Who cares that they can make it, what's the actual point? And if you really need that res, you'll want MF or LF IMO. Canon's lenses haven't a hope in hell of coping with that res, it'll reveal every flaw. So what if MF goes to 100MP, do you think again more than 0.1% photographers would care about a $50K system? They make great talking points like a Ferrari, but we can't afford them and then get on with our real lives. It's like putting
...Show more

Why. A good question. Why do we want 12, or 21? Wasn't 3 MP enough? How about 8?

People want what they want. Because, if all other things are equal, more pixels is better than less pixels.

I can't crop my 12.8 MP images from my 5D if I print above 12 x 18. So, a 21 MP camera is just what the doctor ordered. I print to 17 x 25.5.

Would I want a higher rez camera that that? Sure. Then I could crop, and still get a sharp 17" wide print.

Medium format will always be much more expensive than a 35mm FF format camera, and so will the lenses. That's a very good reason why they only sold about 6,000 medium format cameras last year. I mean from all manufacturers put together.

Leica is trying to go in between. For over $20,000 for the camera alone, they wont sell many, but enough for them.

As far as lens quality goes, once you've stopped down a couple of stops, the best lenses from Canon and Nikon are pretty damn good. Canon has stated that they will make higher density sensors, so we may as well get used to that fact. We know Sony is working on this. No question that Nikon will be as well. Canon, and others are working on lens programs to increase IQ along their lines. It will take a few years, as lens development is very expensive. More expensive even than coming out with a new body.

You can't tell me that when these cameras come out that no one will buy them, because we both know it's not true. Why, you may even buy one yourself.



Sep 25, 2008 at 08:43 PM
Mel Gross
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p.96 #15 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


michael49 wrote:
Ditto.

My 40D's AF smokes my 5D's, which is to be expected, but if my 40D's AF smokes the 5DII's AF, well that would just be pathetic, IMO.


That's interesting. Rob Galbraith had this to say about it:

Somewhat surprisingly, Canon has not adopted the 40D/50D's AF system which, on paper, is superior, given that all nine of its AF points are cross-type. Canon USA's Westfall says the reason for that is the "6 Assist AF points plus center point were deemed to provide a higher level of performance for AI Servo AF than the center point-only arrangement of the [40D and] 50D." Given that we've previously found the overall autofocus performance of the 5D to be decent, while the 40D's tracking capability has been erratic at best, Canon has likely chosen the better of the two AF systems...Show more

Canon has improved the 5D's system over that of the original camera.

The 5D Mark II does include two more obvious changes in its AF system, relative to the 5D: it now has the ability to detect scene colour temperature and light flicker, then incorporate that as part of the camera's autotofocus calculation, plus AF Microadjustment, to compensate for focus calibration error in the camera body or combination of body and attached lens, has been added.




Sep 25, 2008 at 08:50 PM
Mel Gross
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p.96 #16 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


M Vers wrote:
ONE good AF point may be all YOU need, but to the vast majority, it wouldn't cut it with the dull backside of a butter knife. If Canon wanted to improve the AF on the 5D it wouldn't be a tweaked version of the first 5D's AF system. There have been advances in Af since the release of the original 5D...surely the original was not beyond its time in AF performance and nor is it now. There is a possibility that it is better...but slightly better is garbage compared to what the opposition offers. Frankly I don't think one
...Show more

I wouldn't say the vast majority. I would say that there are some who find it not as useful as they would prefer.



Sep 25, 2008 at 08:53 PM
Mel Gross
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p.96 #17 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Yohan Pamudji wrote:
Ah, so I was supposed to read your OTHER posts. Thanks for clearing that up.

Lots of fuzzy math being thrown around regarding the upper limit of resolution before degradation occurs (not by you Mel, to be clear). Wish I could see definitive calculations on that, and even then that might not be all that useful since the ideal lens doesn't exist.


Nothing personal, but we can't repeat everything we say in one post, the next time we post on the same thing. If we did, our posts would soon fill a small book. Generally If someone posts something a bit odd, I will look back a few pages to see if they've continued a discussion.

Normally, I read a few pages before that last page of a long thread I've just joined before I post, so I won't make a faux pas. Doesn't always work, but it cuts down on my stupidity.



Sep 25, 2008 at 08:57 PM
M Vers
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p.96 #18 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Mel Gross wrote:
Canon has improved the 5D's system over that of the original camera.


Would you consider that a large improvement? Let me rephrase...would you consider that an improvement 3 years in the making? Better yet, would you call that an improvement that sticks up to the relative competition? I'd say--no, no...and no.



Sep 25, 2008 at 09:14 PM
M Vers
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p.96 #19 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Mel Gross wrote:
I wouldn't say the vast majority. I would say that there are some who find it not as useful as they would prefer.


Your saying that some photographers like more than one AF point? I'm going to stick with "vast majority"--then again I haven't seen the recent polls.



Sep 25, 2008 at 09:16 PM
Hey.Underpants
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p.96 #20 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


M Vers wrote:
Would you consider that a large improvement? Let me rephrase...would you consider that an improvement 3 years in the making? Better yet, would you call that an improvement that sticks up to the relative competition? I'd say--no, no...and no.

And an amen on top



Sep 25, 2008 at 09:18 PM
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