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Archive 2008 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread

  
 
Mel Gross
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p.151 #1 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


bobbytan wrote:
I would agree that if it weren't for the D700 the 5D Mk II will be a lot more expensive, but I am not sure that the D700/D3 has surpassed the 1Ds Mk III noise-wise.



My friend Lloyd, who has done extensive testing, and photography with both, thinks the Nikons have the best s/n and dynamic range he's ever seen, esp at higher ISO's.

I often think about high ISO noise, and how it relates to low ISO photos.

I've come to the conclusion that no matter how good noise is at lower ISOs, unless it's pretty good at higher ones, you're limited as to what you can do with the image.
If you shoot at 200, and need to bring the shadow detail back by a stop, then you've now made those shadows effectively 400. If you go two stops brighter, they are 800, etc.

If you start shooting at 400, the situation is a stop worse all around.

He's found that you can bring badly underexposed photos taken with the D3/700 back from the dead, where other cameras can barely get a usable image. I tend to agree from the shooting I've done with a friends D700. I couldn't do that with the 1Ds mkIII, though with low ISO photos that didn't need manipulation, the difference wasn't too much worse, but it was worse.

The 5D is about equal through 400, and begins to fall back. Still close at 800, but 1600 isn't.



Nov 07, 2008 at 02:50 AM
myy001
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p.151 #2 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


mkress65 wrote:
That's interesting. I wonder how they decided whom to invite since I was (still am as far as I know) on the pre-order list for the kit. Thanks for posting the pics and info.



mmm, the room is too small to host all, i think. But, I received 2 (no kidding), one could be yours



Nov 07, 2008 at 02:51 AM
Mel Gross
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p.151 #3 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


myy001 wrote:
Very clean ISO 3200 or less.


Have you a 5D to compare it to?

Everything I've seen so far looks pretty good through 3200, and pretty great through 800.



Nov 07, 2008 at 02:52 AM
EyeBrock
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p.151 #4 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Henry's (Canada) has just raised the price of the 5D2 by $300 because of "rising currency exchange values" to $3099.

This camera is starting to look overly expensive.



Nov 07, 2008 at 03:00 AM
Mel Gross
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p.151 #5 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


EyeBrock wrote:
Henry's (Canada) has just raised the price of the 5D2 by $300 because of "rising currency exchange values" to $3099.

This camera is starting to look overly expensive.


I said the stores might do that for that reason.

But if they do it with Canon, they'll do it for the others as well after a short time.



Nov 07, 2008 at 03:09 AM
Doug Vann
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p.151 #6 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


I have been told by every retailer that it is Canon that has jacked the price up. I put a deposit of $600 down and it showed the origional price and what was owing and was told that Canon has cancelled all sales agreements and the new price is in affect and if you don't like it then you can cancel. So I cancelled. They can stick the 5D up their behinds......


Nov 07, 2008 at 04:32 AM
Doug Vann
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p.151 #7 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


That is the Canon US web site that is showing $2699. The rest of the world is going to get screwed with a jacked up price. I have cancelled my purchase order from Henrys in Canada. I also told them I will no longer be doing business with Henrys since they don't honour customer sales agreements.


Nov 07, 2008 at 04:34 AM
Doug Vann
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p.151 #8 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


FYI before cancelling my order I was told that Dec 5 would now be the delivery date not November....


Nov 07, 2008 at 04:36 AM
Doug Vann
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p.151 #9 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


I've got news for you - even if you haver already paid for your camera - Canon can jack the price up all they want until you actually have it in your hands. Their attitude is if you don't want it - there is another customer that will......


Nov 07, 2008 at 04:42 AM
headroom
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p.151 #10 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread




Color:
More important is that printer will not posterize, specialy from light dark to the darker areas. Needs more ink color above 6 to 12 (better) or 16 bit printing from also 16 bit pictures!


I believe that there are a lot more factors than just the number of colors available. Dithering routines, heads, and multiple shades of black(grey) are also very important....maybe more. I have not done any personal testing, but a number of people I respect have tested high end printes in 8 bit and 16 bit modes and cannot distinguish any improvement due to 16 bit printing (as differentiated from 8 vs. 16 bit processing)

Michael Reichman and others ( FLAAR) find out the New Designjets 2100/3200 are better in this regions than my HP 130. Also the new Epson shows this behavoir... Do some research....


File size:
In photoshop you can see View: actual pixel size. There you can check with softproofing if the sharping is ok or not, also check for some jaggies. Then step back from your Monitor to see. The dpi from the file is not the same as the Printheadpixel density!


I do not believe that

I can do that, how you do that, print every time a new picture? A collected lot of experinece over the years.



Nov 07, 2008 at 05:05 AM
CMOS
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p.151 #11 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Doug Vann wrote:
That is the Canon US web site that is showing $2699. The rest of the world is going to get screwed with a jacked up price. I have cancelled my purchase order from Henrys in Canada. I also told them I will no longer be doing business with Henrys since they don't honour customer sales agreements.


Can't you buy it in the US? Or does that screw the warranty if you try to get it serviced in CAN?

What are the chances it will break anyway under warranty? And even if it did, do you know someone in the US who could send it to Canon?



Nov 07, 2008 at 06:42 AM
thedigitalbean
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p.151 #12 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


CMOS wrote:
Can't you buy it in the US? Or does that screw the warranty if you try to get it serviced in CAN?

What are the chances it will break anyway under warranty? And even if it did, do you know someone in the US who could send it to Canon?


He can buy it in the US, but $2700 USD = $3200 CAD because the Canadian dollar has fallen so much recently. He's pissed because he can't get it for $2800 CAD which is the price Canon initially stated when the Canadian dollar was almost at parity with the US dollar. Canon repriced the camera because of the fact that most world currencies have fallen considerably against the Yen.



Nov 07, 2008 at 08:38 AM
mkress65
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p.151 #13 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


myy001 wrote:
mmm, the room is too small to host all, i think. But, I received 2 (no kidding), one could be yours


Oh sure... NOW you tell me!

Matt



Nov 07, 2008 at 09:35 AM
wkhc168
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p.151 #14 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Canon Canada has canceled all 2,799 pre-orders and resubmitted them at 3,099. Therefore, the old pre-order price will *not* be honoured after all. For all those are not happy, I suggest that we all call Canon Canada :
(905) 795-1111 and ask for
Ian Macfarlane
VP and GM, Consumer Imaging Group

to let him know how we feel about them canceling all our orders and jack up the price .
I just did.

Edited on Nov 07, 2008 at 11:04 AM · View previous versions



Nov 07, 2008 at 10:22 AM
RDKirk
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p.151 #15 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Doug Vann wrote:
I've got news for you - even if you haver already paid for your camera - Canon can jack the price up all they want until you actually have it in your hands. Their attitude is if you don't want it - there is another customer that will......


Well, remember that every price quote has the disclaimer that the price is only suggested and can change. If the retailer has actually charged your card, you might have a dispute, but until that's happened, you don't really have a "sales agreement."

Any agreement you might have (or think you have) is always with the retailer--not Canon. The retailer may or may not be willing to pass wholesale price increases or decreases to the purchaser.

If Canon has increased the wholesale price, I expect the US dealers to stick to the original MAP for pre-orders if the wholesale price increase still offers any sliver of profit. I'd be rather surprised if US dealers passed on the price increase for pre-orders.



Nov 07, 2008 at 10:46 AM
ichiro17
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p.151 #16 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Henry's has re-priced their pre-orders to $3099 and they are going to look horribly bad about it.

I placed a $500 deposit on the camera when it was $2799. Does anyone know if I have a case in Canada to keep my price at that point?

By the way, the Henry's cost price (as told to me by a Henry's manager) is $2850 CDN. Just in case you need to know that....



Nov 07, 2008 at 11:00 AM
jcss
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p.151 #17 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Price Increase

Is Canon Breaking the law? Americans would be picketing right now...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe if everyone held off for a month on buying Canon, Canon Canada might feel the financial message.

Canon recently announced the end of the month release of a new camera model, the Canon EOS 5D Mark II kit (with EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM lens) to be pre-sold (pre-ordered) at $3649 through licensed distributers. Many Canadian citizens ordered the camera, including myself, with a required deposit to secure delivery of that camera on the release date for that price.

Yesterday, Canon officially renegged on their agreement, citing market ecomony and exchange issues. They announced they would increase the prices $300 (roughly ten percent on the camera alone) to $3949.

Not only did they advertise the deal, but they also allowed their authrozied sales reps to take deposits.

I feel they have broken laws in the areas of false advertising, contractual obligation, they also incorporated a sort of bait and switch technique, incited interest and committment and then after the sale was deposited, demanded an extra unagreed upon amount.

I think there is a large class action here for anyone who pre-ordered.

I do wedding photography, I book years in advance, I do not find it wise to call clients up a few weeks prior to their wedding and tell them that their deposited contract with me is no longer valid at my sole discretion without their agreement.....and I think if I did my clients would flip and bad reputation would ensue.

The authorzed resellers are not the culprits here, as far as I know....it was Canon who promised the sub $3k Full Frame Camera for media buzz...again problem - they allowed authorized reseller to take deposits.

So canon is responsible for supplying these cameras and Vistek or Henry's should not be held accountable, except that they are not defending their clients (if their is a possibility).

Yesterday I spoke to an executive in Canon Canada who returned my call, he explained among other things that "Canon Stands on it's past reputation..." and is not as concerned with Canadian's input in the design process, that their is no reason for a Canadian version of the explorer's of light, first because the level is not their, then correcting himself saying it was a duplication....." Overall I got the impression that Canadian's Don't really count to Canon world wide....

With that against Canadians and the prejudice that we are nice compliant peaceful individuals, it is not wonder that Canon could announce sticking it to Canadians.

Let's see, their notification included "This is unfortunate and something that Canon couldn’t have predicted."

My Argument - they did predict it, and they took deposits on it...Sales Orders are better than word of mouth contracts...

Canon should honour their marketing hype and not take the 12th hour bailout on the price they promised to deliver.


THe letter I received:

"Dear Valued Vistek Customer,

XXXX Ltd. has received official notification from Canon Canada that the pricing on the
5D MkII will be increasing prior to any cameras being shipped in Canada due to the increase
in the Canadian exchange rate. This is unfortunate and something that Canon couldn’t have predicted.
The new prices are:

Canon EOS 5D Mark II body only Was $2799. It has been increased to $3099.
Canon EOS 5D Mark II kit (with EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM lens) Was $3649. Now $3949.

As your imaging supplier, we have the unfortunate task of notifying you that the Canon prices
on your XXXX sales order dated prior to Nov. 5, 2008 are no longer valid.

We very sincerely apologise for this increase. It is driven by the economy and in response to
our supplier’s increase.

Please contact me if you have any questions. Your revised sales order is attached.

Best regards, ...."


My reply

"That is very unfortunate for Canon, but not for me, as far as I can tell legally, the prices on my deposited order are still valid. If they could not have predicted it, then they shouldn’t have predicted it - but they did, and they agreed to allow authorized resellers to take deposits.


I wish to still buy my 5D mk II with 24-105 L series lens for the agreed upon price that Canon authorized it’s own authorized dealers to advertise. This order is already deposited, and thus an agreement has begun.

I refuse Canon’s request to opt out of this contract (supplying the authorized retailer with product at the advertised price) at this time: the contractual obligation and steps to terminating a contract are well explained on the Consumer and Corporate Affairs website for Canada – so even American driven price increases could have received their due diligence prior to commencing.


I will contact Canon today, and depending on their response, I will file complaints with 3 agencies and hand the summary to a few legal teams to evaluate the potential claim. I would like to also fund the publication of a website outlining this event and Canon’s position.

It would appear that if 500 bodies sold in Canada for $300 more, that would only be $150,000.00…and while to many that much money is not a lot, the principle that as consumers we should not accept profit as an excuse to break laws."


PS when are they gonna put actual dedicated buttons back on the pro flash to efficiently control the Master - Slave function - what loonacy....multiple lighting set-ups on different channels, couples wedding dance, hit none dedicated button and hold for a few seconds sometimes twice to make it work -



Nov 07, 2008 at 11:22 AM
CMOS
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p.151 #18 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


I note that Canon's USA web site has this:

"Suggested Retail Price: $2699.00†
† Prices and specifications subject to change without notice. Actual prices are determined by individual dealers and may vary."

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=17662

That may be enough to shield them from this sort of problem.



Nov 07, 2008 at 11:30 AM
philber
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p.151 #19 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


The situation seems to me slightly different from what you think. Technically, buying from a dealer/distributor means you have a contract with them, not with Canon. What Canon do relative to their pricing to their distributor is not your problem. And if your distributor took your down payment, thus essentially sealing a deal with you, without getting a firm deal from Canon, then they have been imprudent and will now pay for it.
Furthermore, I feel that your distributor letting Canon "take the heat" when, in essence, they are at fault for 1) sealing a deal with a firm sales price without a firm purchase price, 2) attempting to pass on to you the cost of the their negligence, and 3) attempting to pass on to Canon the onus of their action is not exactly fair...

Looking at it another way, it does look like Canon were dealing fair (not exactly nice, but fair) when, on their Website they announced that the price was liable to change. So, this way too, it looks like your distributor/dealer was too eager to get his hands on your money and promised more than he could/would keep.

Just my 2 cents



Nov 07, 2008 at 11:40 AM
wkhc168
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p.151 #20 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


The day after the announcement, my salesman at Vistek called me to let me know that I can place an order but it required a "non-refundable" deposit of 15% of the list price. So that means that it is a binding contract and if I decided to not buy it, I would lose my deposit. So why is it that it is ok now for them to cancel the order unless I agree to pay $300 more?


Nov 07, 2008 at 11:52 AM
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