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Archive 2008 · Canon 1D MK 4

  
 
ChrisDar
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p.12 #1 · Canon 1D MK 4


M Vers wrote:
Excuse me if this comes off harsh, which is not my intent, but that's pure stubbornness--regardless of your stance on product segregation. If Canon releases the 1DIV (or what have you) with a video feature and it happens to be the best camera they make (I'm talking large jump) or if they plan to release all future 1-series bodies with video capability you will simply ignore them based on one feature you are not forced to use? I guess I'm baffled by your thinking--but to each his own


I guess you could call it stubborn but I don't. It just doesn't make sense to me. If putting video in a professional still camera made sense then why don't they make an all in one $8,000.00 fax, print, scan and gallery quality photo printers, or a Ferrari that can also tow a 10,000 pound travel trailer. Same logic. I have nothing against video, I just don't want it in my still camera.



Feb 13, 2009 at 01:19 AM
wordfool
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p.12 #2 · Canon 1D MK 4


ChrisDar wrote:
I guess you could call it stubborn but I don't. It just doesn't make sense to me. If putting video in a professional still camera made sense then why don't they make an all in one $8,000.00 fax, print, scan and gallery quality photo printers, or a Ferrari that can also tow a 10,000 pound travel trailer. Same logic. I have nothing against video, I just don't want it in my still camera.

I understand where you're coming from but if you consider that the 1D series (non-s) is essentially a sports/PJ camera then it makes perfect sense. Journalism (including sports journalism) today involves more and more video clips being used online alongside stills, so giving PJs the tool to create both at once makes perfect sense to me.



Feb 13, 2009 at 02:08 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.12 #3 · Canon 1D MK 4


pipspeak wrote:
I understand where you're coming from but if you consider that the 1D series (non-s) is essentially a sports/PJ camera then it makes perfect sense. Journalism (including sports journalism) today involves more and more video clips being used online alongside stills, so giving PJs the tool to create both at once makes perfect sense to me.


The issue has been raised of licensing though as many sporting events have different licensing for video and still photos.

I couldn't care either way if they put video in the 1 series as long as they address other more important issues. If you don't like the feature don't use it.



Feb 13, 2009 at 02:41 AM
gbee
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p.12 #4 · Canon 1D MK 4


M Vers wrote:
you will simply ignore them based on one feature you are not forced to use? I guess I'm baffled by your thinking--but to each his own


Live view for instance, I was looking forward to this feature actually, but I almost never use it, apart from trying it from time to time.

So, that feature no longer lights my interest.

I've recently bought a video camera and if my 1DMKIII had video like the 5DMKII ~ I suspect I'd use it. BUT, I had no interest in video at all before that, thus, the video feature of the 5DMKII had not attracted me.

And if I don't have an interest in certain features, then I too, tend to dismiss the manufacture out of hand. I don't do this with Canon because I know a lot about her products, but other electronic stuff yes. But then again sometimes I discover that the feature I've been dismissive about, is actually what I'm looking for ~ then, I'll look at that manufacturers range first, every time I want something.




Feb 13, 2009 at 03:25 AM
brainiac
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p.12 #5 · Canon 1D MK 4


ChrisDar wrote:
I guess you could call it stubborn but I don't. It just doesn't make sense to me. If putting video in a professional still camera made sense then why don't they make an all in one $8,000.00 fax, print, scan and gallery quality photo printers, or a Ferrari that can also tow a 10,000 pound travel trailer. Same logic. I have nothing against video, I just don't want it in my still camera.


In the menu under liveview video functions you will find an option called 'disable'. If you'll excuse me for explaining what that means, if you select it, then no button, no usage, and no feature of the results will have anything whatever to do with video. Using it means that the camera is identical to a camera in which a video feature does not exist, except for that single menu item. It's also completely free of charge, included in the basic camera. Now, selecting that option, once, the first time you switch on the camera may be too much like hard work for you, or you may be too lazy to browse the menus or even read the instructions, or you may simply take pleasure in denying others features that they might find useful, but if not, then what imaginable reason is there to bear a grudge against this feature? Liveview is a useful feature in certain circumstances, for instance as a very reliable and accurate focussing aid for macro and landscape. So we have liveview, and the camera contains memory. The cost in raw materials of feeding liveview through a processor and writing the results to memory is so minimal that I am willing to bet this feature had no influence whatsoever on the price point of the camera.

So really, those saying that inclusion of video is bad are just puritans trying to ban other people from dancing because only their kind of fun (bitching) is the one true way.

We've been through all this with liveview, a feature which many derided, and which turned out to be very useful, and also with joystick focus point selection on the Mk3's which again, many said mustn't be added, and not a whisper of complaint has been heard since it was added. Probably many of the naysayers have realised that it's a better system, and have quietly adopted it. Some people think all change is Satanic, and it's very important to ignore and ridicule them, otherwise change for the better never happens.



Feb 13, 2009 at 07:33 AM
Adam L
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p.12 #6 · Canon 1D MK 4


Pixel Perfect wrote:
I couldn't care either way if they put video in the 1 series as long as they address other more important issues. If you don't like the feature don't use it.


+ 1

brainiac wrote:
The cost in raw materials of feeding liveview through a processor and writing the results to memory is so minimal that I am willing to bet this feature had no influence whatsoever on the price point of the camera.


Unlikely. It would've taken engineers many man hours to figure out thow to do it right. Although I agree the additional cost would most likely be minimal, adding a feature such as video or Live View WILL increase the price by X amount.



Feb 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Kevin Sherman
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p.12 #7 · Canon 1D MK 4


All I want in the MIV is a MIII with HD Video and the sweet screen on the back. Anything else is gravy


Feb 13, 2009 at 10:50 AM
ChrisDar
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p.12 #8 · Canon 1D MK 4


brainiac wrote:
So really, those saying that inclusion of video is bad are just puritans trying to ban other people from dancing because only their kind of fun (bitching) is the one true way.


I didn't say it was bad, I said I wasn't interested in it and wouldn't buy a still camera with video, that is why I have a video camera. (I wasn't bitching)(I stated my opinion)(do you enjoy throwing in the jabs and insults in parenthesis)(or)(are)(you)(just)(keyboard challenged).

brainiac wrote:
We've been through all this with liveview, a feature which many derided, and which turned out to be very useful, and also with joystick focus point selection on the Mk3's which again, many said mustn't be added, and not a whisper of complaint has been heard since it was added. Probably many of the naysayers have realised that it's a better system, and have quietly adopted it. Some people think all change is Satanic, and it's very important to ignore and ridicule them, otherwise change for the better never happens.


Live view and the joystick are great functions and features of a "still" camera and I use them often.
question.. How do you ignore and ridicule someone at the same time..



Feb 13, 2009 at 11:11 AM
gourdhead
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p.12 #9 · Canon 1D MK 4


The only change I would like for the MKIV would be a major price reduction so I could afford to use my MKII as a back up instead of my front line camera. Dreaming big dreams today


Feb 13, 2009 at 11:16 AM
brainiac
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p.12 #10 · Canon 1D MK 4


ChrisDar wrote:
I didn't say it was bad, I said I wasn't interested in it and wouldn't buy a still camera with video, that is why I have a video camera. (I wasn't bitching)(I stated my opinion)(do you enjoy throwing in the jabs and insults in parenthesis)(or)(are)(you)(just)(keyboard challenged).

Live view and the joystick are great functions and features of a "still" camera and I use them often.
question.. How do you ignore and ridicule someone at the same time..


...but do you see that you are looking for an absence of a feature that costs you nothing and is welcomed by a significant minority. What's the point of leaving out features that don't cost any compromise? What have you lost if it's included, and what do you gain if it isn't? There are always people here who ask for features to be removed, but we have to accept that cameras to some extent have to be general purpose tools and the camera makers have to bear in mind a fairly broad range of users and usage patterns if they want a camera to be a success. Choosing 'disable' and never thinking about it again seems to me to be a small price to pay for allowing fellow users to enjoy what they regard as a killer feature. You might as well resent the fact that the camera has PAL output as well as NTSC.

Or just build your own camera.



Feb 13, 2009 at 03:15 PM
dpun
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p.12 #11 · Canon 1D MK 4


The Real Reason the Mark4 is being delayed:

I talked to someone who used to be the team photographer for one of the NFL teams. Word on the street is that the NFL is balking at the 1Dm4's video capabilities. The NFL wants to control all the video coming out of these games, they don't want togs with the new Mark4 to have HD video. They are searching bags for the 5Dm2 and not allowing that model on the field right now.

Question: does the NFL control all the video coming out of the games now?

If this is true, Canon has a decision to make....give up the NFL or give up HD video. (And I can image that other sports leagues are contemplating the same thing...MLB, NBA, NHL..etc...etc)

Dave



Feb 13, 2009 at 06:49 PM
MMILNE
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p.12 #12 · Canon 1D MK 4


Not true unless this is a new policy. Here's the 5DII at NFL games. See this


Feb 13, 2009 at 07:01 PM
pixelman
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p.12 #13 · Canon 1D MK 4


I'm not falling over myself to add video either but it's creeping in and to continue billing my clients and doing what they want I have to add it at some point. Canon sells a lot of the 1series to people that are or will be stuck in the same boat. We are heading that way because we 'have' to. So lets all continue 2009 with our head held high and not whining about video more than we have too. Or at least not after spring comes Hate video, don't go to that menu, don't complain, don't worry be happy, oh wait that ones taken.


Feb 13, 2009 at 08:54 PM
braddo_99
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p.12 #14 · Canon 1D MK 4


Would anyone like a 1 class camera without the integrated grip? I'm sure it's valuable for some, but it's huge and annoying-seeming to me. Not such a big deal to rotate the camera, plus you get that cool "active PJ " look :-)


Feb 13, 2009 at 09:01 PM
Gary Petersen
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p.12 #15 · Canon 1D MK 4


braddo_99 wrote:
Would anyone like a 1 class camera without the integrated grip? I'm sure it's valuable for some, but it's huge and annoying-seeming to me. Not such a big deal to rotate the camera, plus you get that cool "active PJ " look :-)


I only use the vertical grip once in a while to see if it works. Other than that I just rotate it in the "active PJ" form. To me if they offered a 1D series without the grip and removed everything that said automatic then priced it accordingly lower I'd buy one.



Feb 13, 2009 at 11:54 PM
Daan B
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p.12 #16 · Canon 1D MK 4


Any 1D4 PMA leaks yet


Feb 14, 2009 at 03:26 AM
gbee
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p.12 #17 · Canon 1D MK 4


Daan B wrote:
Any 1D4 PMA leaks yet


Yes, reliable sources say no 1D4 this spring



Feb 14, 2009 at 03:30 AM
gbee
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p.12 #18 · Canon 1D MK 4


pixelman wrote:
We are heading that way because we 'have' to.


Sure are, look at most news channels today, it's lead is a picture, either a still or a grab from video. It's always accompanied by a few seconds of video.

We have a format issue to resolve as we just can't compete with broadcast TV in file transfer ~ that's the bottle neck ~ but I agree that it is the way its going.

We did think that video and video grab was the answer, but that's not proving acceptable. The 5DMKII has shown that the stills camera with video added has a better opportunity.



Feb 14, 2009 at 03:38 AM
Daan B
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p.12 #19 · Canon 1D MK 4


gbee wrote:
Yes, reliable sources say no 1D4 this spring


Reliable sources



Feb 14, 2009 at 04:25 AM
brainiac
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p.12 #20 · Canon 1D MK 4


braddo_99 wrote:
Would anyone like a 1 class camera without the integrated grip? I'm sure it's valuable for some, but it's huge and annoying-seeming to me. Not such a big deal to rotate the camera, plus you get that cool "active PJ " look :-)


I would kill for one. The D700 qualifies, but it's not quite worth switching for. I just sold my 1Ds3, and have gone to 5D2 primarily for this reason. I don't understand why those who want a Canon pro body, or three, are expected to carry that weight. The three cameras around my neck are never going to be 1Ds3's, simply because of the weight and size.



Feb 14, 2009 at 06:08 AM
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