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Archive 2008 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

Cliff L.
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p.2 #1 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

eaglewolf wrote:
Is the focus issue with the new Canons still a problem? I thought it had been taken care of. Canon has too big of a reputation with the pros to let that go.

Best to read the article for yourself, but the impression I got is that Canon has not to spend any more effort to solve the problems, and are spending their money on PR efforts to convince users there is no problem.

I expect we'll see a 1D Mark IIIN by Photokina - that's what they had to do with the 1D Mark II to fix its problems.

Aug 02, 2008 at 12:14 PM

bka20d
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p.2 #2 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

i recently sold my 5d's and picked up a d700. the reason for selling the 5d's was not that there was anything wrong them because there was not. the image quality was and still is amazing. all the more remarkable is that it is a 3 year old camera,but since i shoot with a digital back and a 1dsmk3, the hole in my arsenal was lowlight, high iso capability. below iso 800, the 5d files have a slight edge, between 800 and 1600, it is a dead heat and above 1600, the d700 rules.
when i first opened the box, and looked at the manual, i freaked out. having never picked up a nikon camera before, the menus, the buttons,the custom functions were to say the least intimidating. after two deep breaths, and sitting down with the manual and the camera, in very short order i found myself amazed and impressed with both the camera and its controls...i'm a little gun shy with repsect to making further representations about image quality as i have a whole 'nother learning curve with the nikon software. with canon, my workflow was/is set.
as far a lenses are concerned, the 24-70 f2.8 g is awesome as is the 60 macro and the 105vr...hopefully nikon will add a few fast g primes and f4 zooms.

Aug 02, 2008 at 03:22 PM

andrewd01
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p.2 #3 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

I intend to buy a D700 - it's too awesome a camera to ignore at the price. Especially looking forward to a useable LCD and the ability to use Zeiss ZF glass without mucking around with adapters and stop-down metering. I still have some Nikon glass from film days. I will not sell my 5D though.

Aug 02, 2008 at 03:26 PM

Etadam
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p.2 #4 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

I'm surprised by the Image Quality remarks, being better on the 5D.
My guess is that people are talking about Jpegs straight from the camera (ie, not Raw).

The D700 raw pixel color (channel) depth is 14 bits - vs 12 bits for the 5D. That is an awesome difference (4 times).
In my opinion, while I don't own either of the cameras, the Raw files from the D700 must be able to render images like the 5D - if one want to. Jpegs straight from the camera are probably more neutral.

The camera is still hot from the oven... 3rd party software are not all up-to-date, and firmware updates are to be expected. But IQ shouldn't be a criteria from Jpegs ; at least at this time.

Edited by Etadam on Aug 03, 2008 at 06:02 AM GMT

Edited on Aug 02, 2008 at 04:02 PM

Aug 02, 2008 at 03:53 PM

poisonpill
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p.2 #5 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

Etadam wrote:
The D700 raw pixel color depth is 14 bits - vs 12 bits for the 5D. That is an awesome difference (4 times).

14bit afaik is overrated. It gives you a tiny tiny bit better data in the extreme shadows and highlights, but I doubt it's going to affect the overall image quality of the camera.

I'm not disagreeing with your premise (jpg vs raw) but the 14bit doesn't really matter I don't think.

Aug 02, 2008 at 03:59 PM

Etadam
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p.2 #6 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

poisonpill wrote:
It gives you a tiny tiny bit better data in the extreme shadows and highlights, but I doubt it's going to affect the overall image quality of the camera.

2 more bits per color channel is 64 times the 5D colors per pixel. This margin if used properly during raw HDR data processing/conversion to Jpeg will make a notable difference.
Just my opinion anyway... but I think the current tools may not be at their best to take advantage of the whole data.

Aug 02, 2008 at 04:11 PM

bka20d
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p.2 #7 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

Etadam wrote:
I'm surprised by the Image Quality remarks, being better on the 5D.
My guess is that people are talking about Jpegs straight from the camera (ie, not Raw).

The D700 raw pixel color depth is 14 bits - vs 12 bits for the 5D. That is an awesome difference (4 times).
In my opinion, while I don't own either of the cameras, the Raw files from the D700 must be able to render images like the 5D - if one want to. Jpegs straight from the camera are probably more neutral.

The camera is still hot from the oven... 3rd party software are not...Show more →
my experience with the bit differential is it is less apparent on screen than it is in print, and imo, some people may have to shoot the same scene and compare side by side as the differences may be subtle depending on the scene and difficult to perceive. additionally, choice of color space may also be a factor
my comments regarding iso performance reflect my general impression of the amount of noise i am used to seeing with the 5d raw files opened in dpp as opposed to the nefs in capture. processing the files using the same software or changing canon and nikon sw or in camera parameters where they are roughly equivalent, might lead me to a different opinion/conclusion. no matter what, the d700 is one compelling camera.

Edited on Aug 02, 2008 at 05:02 PM

Aug 02, 2008 at 05:01 PM

Radiohead
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p.2 #8 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

The 5D has and still does have superb IQ. It's better than any Nikon bar the D3 and now D700 and has been highly thought of for that reason. For Nikon to provide that (and better high ISO performance) AND the feature set of the D700 is good enough - it's quite possible that 12-14MP is the sweet spot for decent FF high ISO performance and all round ability and Canon got it right first time. Having shot 5D for a couple of years there's nothing in it between that and the D3/700 (having shot the former since January and the latter for a week, but in essence they're the same) up to ISO800. At 1600 the Nikons don't show the same sort of chroma noise I saw in the Canon. At 3200 it's more marked and beyond that no contest.

I'm not quite sure why people hold up the 5D for its IQ and then have a pop at Nikon for matching it. It is now suddenly not good enough because it's got a Nikon badge on?

Aug 02, 2008 at 05:28 PM

David Baldwin
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p.2 #9 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

The D700 is a great camera, and I don't rule out buying one myself BUT the comparison between the D700 and the 5D is ridiculous.

Not only is the 5D 3 years older (and so should be totally outclassed by the D700 in all main operational areas - which it isn't) but there are rumours that the Canon 5D Mk2 is going to be released soon.

So lets keep our powder dry and compare 2 contemporary cameras in due course, the D700 and the 5D Mk2.

Nikon have worked very hard on their excellent new camera. I would be surprised if Canon hadn't been working just as hard!

Aug 02, 2008 at 06:19 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #10 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

freddyrozen wrote:
Andre,

As much as I like a lively discussion, it really still hasn't gone anywhere. Frankly, I don't care about the distinction between pixels and dots, as that wasn't the reason for my original post. It was only to point out how good the LCD is on the D700. However, both you and David, while not meaning to, chimed in to point out that I was wrong. However, neither of you has provided any actual proof to my supposed misstatement. Also, the people you are saying use the term wrongly are from ENGLISH SPEAKING NATIONS, whereas Nikon is TRANSLATING FROM JAPANESE.

OK, read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel
http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid183_gci212793,00.html
http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid183_gci211995,00.html

David and I were providing information, not trying to point out YOUR error for the sake of making you look bad. Loose the chip on your sholder and relax. By the way, based on the links I provided, YOU ARE WRONG!

. And please, take this with the good nature I'm sending it with.

sensor & image = pixel
prints & display = dot

Edited on Aug 02, 2008 at 06:49 PM

Aug 02, 2008 at 06:40 PM

poisonpill
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p.2 #11 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

David Baldwin wrote:
The D700 is a great camera, and I don't rule out buying one myself BUT the comparison between the D700 and the 5D is ridiculous.

Not only is the 5D 3 years older (and so should be totally outclassed by the D700 in all main operational areas - which it isn't) but there are rumours that the Canon 5D Mk2 is going to be released soon.

So lets keep our powder dry and compare 2 contemporary cameras in due course, the D700 and the 5D Mk2.

Nikon have worked very hard on their excellent new camera. I would be surprised if Canon...Show more →

There's nothing wrong with comparing newer cameras with the 5D. In many regards, the 5D is still a benchmark and Nikon and Nikon users are ecstatic that something finally goes toe-to-toe with it.

Also there are no other half-bodied full frame cameras around.

In any case, I think anytime the 5D is still brought up is a testament to how good the 5D is, and NOT a slight to it.

Aug 02, 2008 at 06:54 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #12 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

poisonpill wrote:
There's nothing wrong with comparing newer cameras with the 5D. In many regards, the 5D is still a benchmark and Nikon and Nikon users are ecstatic that something finally goes toe-to-toe with it.

Also there are no other half-bodied full frame cameras around.

In any case, I think anytime the 5D is still brought up is a testament to how good the 5D is, and NOT a slight to it.

poisonpill makes a good point here. It's funny, because under most normal shooting conditions and print sizes, say 8x10 or smaller, you can't tell a D2H appart from a D3 or a 5D or etc. etc. Digital cameras have been doing a stellar job for some time now. It's when you push the limits that the new cameras strut their stuff. That, and the ongoing improvement in features.

Aug 02, 2008 at 07:08 PM

mark petri
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p.2 #13 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

molson wrote:
True... unless you are counting on the camera to focus for you... I noticed that Rob Galbraith has finally finished his review of the 1D/1Ds Mark III AF fiasco.

I use equip and judge for myself based on what I shoot, not rely on single use cases by someone else. In the studio, travel, and landscapes I've had exactly zero issues with AF. The latest gen bodies from both nikon and camera beat anything prior hands down.

Aug 03, 2008 at 01:03 AM

Kit Laughlin
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p.2 #14 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

I just processed ~400 Raw shots for my next book today (Canon 5D, 24�70/2.8). I have over 1700 images from the same photographer, same models, same lighting setup, but from six months ago. Today's shots are the pickups (that is, the images I need to finish the book; these we missed from the previous week-long shoot).

The point? The photographer, a good friend, used the D3 on the first shoot, a camera completely unknown to him until ten minutes before the shoot; the 5D plus lens is his own camera (he has worked with this over the last three years).

In today's images, about 10% are soft, and the red channel is blown on about 25% of the images (can be recovered, though). On the last shoot, same setup, no soft images and no blown red channel.

Personally, I have shot over 10,000 images with both bodies (nearly 20,000 with my old 5D). The D3/D700 sensor is, IMHO, a better mousetrap. The 24�70/2.8 Nikkor (used on the 1700-odd images) is sharper and has less CA in the very difficult lighting setup we are using, as well. (We are coming as close to blowing out the white material background as we can, to mask all images, so the graphic designers can drop out the BG completely if they want, while keeping decent skin tones; anyone who has tried to do this with studio strobes will know how hard this is to do).

The D3 files are�frankly�better overall. I think the 5D has really set the standard for FF until now, but I feel the D3/D700 files have more latitude in PP. We are only using 12 bit�for the size reproduction (BW, half page max), I can't see a difference.

So, to the OP, buy a D700 with confidence. Built-in flash, weather sealing, 3" LCD, and better ergonomics to boot. Come back to the Dark Side; you won't regret it. cheers to all, KL

Edited on Aug 04, 2008 at 04:55 AM

Aug 04, 2008 at 04:54 AM

Cliff L.
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p.2 #15 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

mark petri wrote:
The latest gen bodies from both nikon and camera beat anything prior hands down.

Yes... if they're working properly.

Unfortunately, we all know about Canon's inability to maintain any sort of quality control over their manufacturing, so getting Canon equipment that works properly is mostly a matter of luck.

Aug 04, 2008 at 08:03 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #16 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

molson wrote:
Yes... if they're working properly.

Unfortunately, we all know about Canon's inability to maintain any sort of quality control over their manufacturing, so getting Canon equipment that works properly is mostly a matter of luck.

Oh come on Cliff, it's not THAT bad. I agree that the AF fiasco was just that and a big embarrasment for Canon, but they make good cams ... I don't care for their ergonomics which is 1/2 personal and 1/2 design. But, we don't want to become fanboys in the way we say things.

Aug 04, 2008 at 08:07 AM

mholdef
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p.2 #17 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

Many thanks

I spoke to some pros who've tested both bodies and the feedback is similar to what you've said here.

At lower ISOs there is some difference between the two, but the higher you go in ISO the better things get.

I'm going ahead with the D700 and in particular for the new 24-70 lens, but will hold back a month before going for the 70-200 VR as they could come through with an updated version at Photokina to be on par with the 14-24 and 24-70 with some nanocristal glass.

Mark

Aug 04, 2008 at 09:01 AM

Cliff L.
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p.2 #18 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

Andre Labonte wrote:
Oh come on Cliff, it's not THAT bad.

You obviously haven't owned as many defective Canon products as I have... the only thing worse than their quality control is their apathetic "pro" service (speaking as a 10+ year CPS member...)

Edited on Aug 04, 2008 at 09:10 AM

Aug 04, 2008 at 09:10 AM

mark harvey
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p.2 #19 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

IQ aside, i would have switched to the D700 had Nikon made a precision focus screen for it, i don't care for 3rd party screens, it is for that reason alone that i will not buy one, shame on nikon that their ai/ais glass is still more suitable on an EOS body..

Aug 04, 2008 at 09:11 AM

cecelia
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p.2 #20 · Any switchers from 5D to D700?

I disagree about the focusing screen. If a precision screen is required, manual focusing is already getting marginal. Live view is the only way to go in a marginal situation, especially for a wide lens. And if the subject is moving you need AF...

The latitude on my D3 files (all 14 bit) is amazing. I can push and pull files like I never could with D200, D300 or my 5D.

Aug 04, 2008 at 09:44 AM

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