I think it does matter when many photographers are considering whether the D3 'far superior' high iso performance is a reason to spend a fortune switching. Other photographers are choosing not to buy a 1Ds3 because they think it will have poor performance at iso 6400, if they choose to shoot it at that speed on occasion.
It certainly matters to me as I often shoot on low light limits, even at 12800 iso, and a little bit less chroma noise and a more bendable file is a blessing.
Edited by brainiac on Jul 24, 2008 at 05:08 PM GMT
I have to admit that the prints I have seen from the d3 at iso 4000-6400 is.. amazing and I have yet to see canon prints that surpass them, and while I'm no brainiac or technophile, I like to trust my eyes. If I take a picture from my 30d with at 160mm and one picture with my friends 5d at 100mm from the same tripod-stance at iso1600, print the resulting pictures, and the 5d is (as it is) cleaner, that is test enough for me.. or?
The 1ds3 looks cleaner or/and more detailed than the d3 for sure. As I said in the other thread, if the 5d MKII dissapoints, the way to go is (for me) a 1ds2 (since I could not justify the cost of the 3.. :P )
brainiac wrote:
I imagine you are right. Now think about prints. What effective size print does each of those crops belong to?
And what happens to noise when you print bigger?
Well, as I see it the two are not mutually exclusive (sp.?). They are two aspects of the same coin. When printing, the higher MP will always have the advantage but when looking at 100% crops it will not necessarily be so.
cwphoto wrote:
Why do you think the D700 made it out so soon after the D3? Answer: Nikon knew the 5D II was coming and the D700 would be a 'nothing' camera (comparatively speaking) after Q3 2008.
My guess is because the 24MP FF Nikon is coming soon to take over their top of the line, and this 12MP FF sensor is now being put into its natural pecking order.
vkalia wrote:
My guess is because the 24MP FF Nikon is coming soon to take over their top of the line, and this 12MP FF sensor is now being put into its natural pecking order.
Vandit
Yup, that's one of looking at it. The other way would be to feel sorry for the current D3 owners that feel like they are holding the short end as their cameras are being succeeded that soon . On the other hand, Canon may also introduce a 1D MarkIIIN at the Photokina....
AGeoJO wrote:
Yup, that's one of looking at it. The other way would be to feel sorry for the current D3 owners that feel like they are holding the short end as their cameras are being succeeded that soon
Why, when the cameras clearly have very different intended markets.
Radiohead wrote:
Why, when the cameras clearly have very different intended markets.
I was referring to the successor of the D3 with 24MP FF, the flagship camera.... and not the D700. Well, it is too much speculation at this point anyway.
Radiohead wrote:
It's not going to succeed the D3, it'll slot into the range above it for those needing more res. Same as the 1D III and 1Ds III.
While we are speculating here.... both Nikons are FF and the 24MP can generate sRAW files at half the pixel count but with an increase in the burst rate, which will be....almost like the D3. I don't know this for a fact of course but based on the existing features (sRAW and increased burst rate), there is a prettly good likelihood of this situation, if indeed there would be a 24MP FF Nikon, I'd say. Well, actually it is not a matter of "if" but "when". We started to get OT and this is a Canon forum.... .
AGeoJO wrote:
Yup, that's one of looking at it. The other way would be to feel sorry for the current D3 owners that feel like they are holding the short end as their cameras are being succeeded that soon . On the other hand, Canon may also introduce a 1D MarkIIIN at the Photokina....
by year end nikon will have three full frame models in production: the d3 although the first, was and is primarily targeted at the 1dmk3's target audience. the d700 is aimed at the pro,market and photographers in general who want ff but don't need the speed or write capacity or want to pay the associated premiums. the twenty some mp offering will be aimed squarely at the 1ds3. it will be interesting to see what the next few months bring as i don't think canon has been sitting on their hands either.
from my perspective, the developments on the nikon front are a real positive, because it means that we photographers who like ff 35mm have and will have greater choice. it also means that the canon "monopoly" on ff is over and that canon has a different set of/or additional competitive issues to address. hopefully this will lead to greater innovation and a willingness to incorporate more features earlier rather than as a knee jerk reaction to better execution in competitive products.
BKA20d - spot on. Before the D700, I would have never expected a 5D replacement for < $3k. Now I actually have hope that we'll get a really well-specced FF camera for $2500. I am tired of multiplying by 1.6 in my head and I want to use my lenses the way they were intended to be used
And a 1D3N would be nice. The 1D2N was the same camera as the 1D2, and the 1D3.. well, the less said the better. I am still using my 1D2 and have been holding off on upgrading, but a 12MP action/wildlife camera with an improved (I'll even settle for just as good) AF system would be very nice, as it would also let me crop substantially.
What it boils down to is that even Phil Askey isn't capable of interpreting 100% crops from two cameras .....
Actually, I disagree. Phil Askey, or DPR hack-in-chief, has always been able to interpret results between Canon and Nikon. In every case, the Nikon is as good as or better than the Canon, regardless of ISO, actual image quality, or other minor and pesky nuisances like color, clarity, or contrast.
PA has never met a Nikon he didn't like and couldn't misrepresent on his site. Images posted that clearly demonstrate Nikon's inferiority in ANY category are explained away or dismissed with a "doesn't make much difference" or similar comment. I don't know how he gets around the problem that people have eyes though; that's always been a mystery to me but there are many sheep I guess....
All of Phil's reviews are tainted IMO. The whole "it's hard to find anything wrong with the D300" fiasco sealed it (written by a minion I believe). When PA praises a Nikon, it's time to run the other way....
AGeoJO wrote:
While we are speculating here.... both Nikons are FF and the 24MP can generate sRAW files at half the pixel count but with an increase in the burst rate, which will be....almost like the D3. I don't know this for a fact of course but based on the existing features (sRAW and increased burst rate), there is a prettly good likelihood of this situation, if indeed there would be a 24MP FF Nikon, I'd say. Well, actually it is not a matter of "if" but "when". We started to get OT and this is a Canon forum.... .
sRAW still gives you the same image but with fewer MP. The D3 and D700 can cut the RAW size down to 5MP by switching to DX mode, so you end up with a different image, cropped to DX size.
It sure was interesitng to see the D700 come out so soon after the D3 and D300. Clearly Nikon identified the market segment that the 5D has occupied... there may be some other reasons behind this move however I think it's clear to say that Nikon have some great products and technologies that are motivating many Canon users to switch and this is the market segment that Canon no longer have a current contender in. This will likely and hopefully change before I personally make the switch to retain my competitive edge....
With your inside information any chance that Canon will produce an "entry level" FX body for much less than, say, $3000?
BTW, I don't know how many FX cameras Nikon/Canon are planning to sell here in the UK over the next year or so. The economy is heading into recession, taxes are high, inflation rising steadily, house prices declining dramatically fast, the government is lurching into political meltdown. The D700 is retailing here for £2000 ($4000) which is not exactly small change. I wonder how many people here have that kind of lose change anymore.
Suddenly price seems alot more important than MegaPixels. I hope the manufacturers concentrate more on the budget end of the FX market.
While we are speculating here.... both Nikons are FF and the 24MP can generate sRAW files at half the pixel count but with an increase in the burst rate, which will be....almost like the D3.
[...]
Canon's sRAW will do 4-to-1 pixel binning. Half the linear resolution, quarter the pixel count. 2-to-1 pixel binning will ... erhmmm. What pattern will Nikon use for 2-to-1? Only halve horizontal or vertical resolution like the D1x?
. On the other hand, Canon may also introduce a 1D MarkIIIN at the Photokina....
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