Paul Buff wrote:
This is not true. Fred has never suggested asking me to leave. On one occasion one of my posts was deleted because I linked to some info on my website. Though it wasn't promotional I understood the action as this was a violation of forum rules.
On several occasions I have been demeaned and defamed without provocation by two or three members (AB haters) and have defended myself and my reputation among my customers. This is pretty normal human behavior but always leads to distasteful threads. It is AB haters that occasional ask me to leave. I always take the position that if a substantial portion of the membership would prefer my absence I would comply. But I won't bow to a small minority of small minds to the detriment of the majority who seek information. Should I? ...Show more →
My mistake then - sorry about that. As I said, I do appreciate your contributions.
Deezie wrote:
Honestly, Paul, get a sense of humor. It's ironic that your company, which is generally know for its terrific customer service, and which has been my personal experience with your company - is run by such an irascible curmudgeon. In spite of your attempts, you can't control people, only your reaction to them. Take a page from your own company's playbook and lighten up. How about a little "joy of life," there, Buffster?
Deezie, I have a sense of humor and am rather open minded on all subjects. You have, in the past, launched vicious and unprovoked personal attacks on me here, as a marketing person, designer, engineer and human being in general. I have to say that, in my opinion, your sense of humor is the one that is lacking, particularly regarding your consistent past attacks on my sense of style, advertising and marketing. Why must that start up again here?
RDKirk wrote:
On the home page, right in the middle in red type:
"Online FORUM" and "Join the discussion" are links to the forum.
Thanks RDKirk. I have no idea how I missed that earlier. I think it was put there after my post... lol... jk. I am sure I overlooked it as I was looking for a link in the navigation as opposed to a text link in the body copy. Thanks again.
Paul wrote: Deezie, I have a sense of humor and am rather open minded on all subjects. You have, in the past, launched vicious and unprovoked personal attacks on me here, as a marketing person, designer, engineer and human being in general. I have to say that, in my opinion, your sense of humor is the one that is lacking, particularly regarding your consistent past attacks on my sense of style, advertising and marketing. Why must that start up again here?
True, I have not been so kind in the past, but to suggest that it was unprovoked is a serious distortion of the truth. You have been equally unkind and stubborn. That said, this thread has been taken off topic, and I believe your question was answered by Fred. You and I can agree to disagree and move on without further exchange.
Deezie wrote:
True, I have not been so kind in the past, but to suggest that it was unprovoked is a serious distortion of the truth. You have been equally unkind and stubborn. That said, this thread has been taken off topic, and I believe your question was answered by Fred. You and I can agree to disagree and move on without further exchange.
Cheers!
With due respect, your posts on this very thread are humorlessly contrary to your opinion of provocation, sir.
I though as an uninvolved party I would try to decapitate this thread.
Paul thought his threads were being deleted by mods.
Its seems that this may have been in err, or a mod just made a mistake.
Words were exchanged and things seem to be ok now.
We agree that Paul is a great resource on the forums. And yes, he has a product that he sells, but as he has said, he does not advertise on FM.
Fred has no intention of kicking Paul off of FM.
Meanwhile, there are some great shots on the forums right now! So everyone reading this, why don't you head over there and check out some photography...the reason you're on this forum in the first place
I though as an uninvolved party I would try to decapitate this thread.
Paul thought his threads were being deleted by mods.
Its seems that this may have been in err, or a mod just made a mistake.
Words were exchanged and things seem to be ok now.
We agree that Paul is a great resource on the forums. And yes, he has a product that he sells, but as he has said, he does not advertise on FM.
Fred has no intention of kicking Paul off of FM.
Meanwhile, there are some great shots on the forums right now! So everyone reading this, why don't you head over there and check out some photography...the reason you're on this forum in the first place
I think there is a fine line between being helpful participants on this forum as Henry & Paul might be, and the good PR that results by answering questions related to the products they sell. Their responses are a form of PBS-like sponsership - good community PR in exchange for continuous name recognition. It's just another way to advertise, although a subtle one. Imagine if all companies could contribute, defend, or cheerfully clear-up problems with their products at the expense of the forum provider. It would turn into a massive product informercial.
There isn't a question about a company's product that couldn't be answered directly by their experts, or customer service people. I think that Mr. Buff should appreciate that he is allowed to contribute here and leave it at that.
Barry Pehlman wrote:
I think there is a fine line between being helpful participants on this forum as Henry & Paul might be, and the good PR that results by answering questions related to the products they sell. Their responses are a form of PBS-like sponsership - good community PR in exchange for continuous name recognition. It's just another way to advertise, although a subtle one. Imagine if all companies could contribute, defend, or cheerfully clear-up problems with their products at the expense of the forum provider. It would turn into a massive product informercial.
There isn't a question about a company's product that couldn't be answered directly by their experts, or customer service people. I think that Mr. Buff should appreciate that he is allowed to contribute here and leave it at that.
There are many questions posted here that the "experts" give completely wrong information on. I'm not here to sell anything - doing fine in that regard. I'm here to help with questions the "experts" can't answer accurately. Honestly, being on here is a service in my view and has nothing to do with hyping my products. As I've said, if members don't want my feedback I'll be happy to cease to provide it.
MichaelMoore wrote:
What does this thread have to do about lighting?
Who ever is the mod here it may be time to put an end to this thread. Paul got a response from FM.
Paul's lights are nice and he seems like a nice guy, but not everyone likes him or his gear, end of story.
love you guys.... cant we all just get along.
M
Edited by MichaelMoore on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:31 AM GMT
If people don't want to read the threads they don't have to. Censorship is generally a bad thing as long as people are being civil in their posts, which he has been. Educated folks want more information, not less... they can pick and choose what they choose to take away from the conversations.
There are many questions posted here that the "experts" give completely wrong information on. I'm not here to sell anything - doing fine in that regard. I'm here to help with questions the "experts" can't answer accurately. Honestly, being on here is a service in my view and has nothing to do with hyping my products. As I've said, if members don't want my feedback I'll be happy to cease to provide it.
I think there is a lot of misinformation on just about every product discussed, but I haven't seen other manufacturers get involved in forum discussions to clear up wrong information. If that were the case Canon would have a half-dozen full-time
"experts" responding day and night trying to set the record straight. As far as I know, FM members don't get to vote if you will continue to contribute or not. It's not a democracy as you probably know by having your own forum. Other than that, I really like your AB lights, and coincidentally, they speak for themselves.
Paul Buff wrote:
There are many questions posted here that the "experts" give completely wrong information on. I'm not here to sell anything - doing fine in that regard. I'm here to help with questions the "experts" can't answer accurately. Honestly, being on here is a service in my view and has nothing to do with hyping my products. As I've said, if members don't want my feedback I'll be happy to cease to provide it.
Very interesting self take of your "contributions" to this forum. Honestly I have no problem with any of your previous postings, but don't plain insult my intelligence with this type of psychology by calling it a "service". Yes, your business is doing well but be honest, in the past year or so you are seeing more competition for AB/WL than you have ever seen before. You just launch/re-engineered a product (Cybersyncs) that certainly is an investment to you and absolutely needs marketing and hype. What better way than for free by providing "contributions" on photography forum boards.
Go back and look at the history of your posts on FM. Almost every one of them is related to your own products. Not lighting and phototgraphy in general, but specifically your products. In my view, the true intention of those posts are mainly to push your products more. You may post so that that it tries to appear to be unbiased and informative, but you usually slip in a "my product does this better" comment or comparison somewhere in there.
Your "contributions" to this forum really never are common things like "feather your softbox a bit more" - "try raising your hairlight" - "300 w/s should be enough" type of comments, but mostly comments that bring attention to, describe or defend your products. Yes, your posts are informative concerning your products, they should be. Who knows your products better than you. However; a person can go visit your own forum site for that.
How many Cybersyncs (and other Buff products) do you think your "informative" posts here have sold or will sell for you? Quite a few is my bet. It's smart free marketing on your part but don't try to disguise it as "a service" and then play the "then I'll just take my ball and go home" game when someone questions your motives.
No hater here, I actually like many of your products....just an observer.
I think it is great that a manufacturer is posting on any forum and of course especially fredmiranda.com. The fact that they may be biased and only help others that have questions about their own products is perfectly fine.
There are many here who only want help with their own photos. Should we ban them too?
