I know Amy but you would be amazed at how many will call you a whiner because you voice your opinion about this problem. The 5D has many great aspects but in many copies, the brightness of the VF display ain't one of them.
Of course the 1DMKIII owners can cry all day long about their defect and all that happens is that everyone passes them handkerchiefs...
The 5D VF is one of the best I have used on a modern SLR: bright clear and big. The VF data display is a little small 'n dim but I have no problems seeing it even in bright light. I rather prefer it that way as I find large 'n bright data displays distracting. I wish Canon included a CF to disable the display. After all, I can usually remember I set F8...
The worse VF I have used are on the older Rebel DSLRs, e.g., XT & XTi. Tiny, dim and like a postage stamp at the end of a tunnel.
Gochugogi wrote:
The 5D VF is one of the best I have used on a modern SLR: bright clear and big. The VF data display is a little small 'n dim but I have no problems seeing it even in bright light. I rather prefer it that way as I find large 'n bright data displays distracting. I wish Canon included a CF to disable the display. After all, I can usually remember I set F8...
The worse VF I have used are on the older Rebel DSLRs, e.g., XT & XTi. Tiny, dim and like a postage stamp at the end of a tunnel....Show more →
Yeh, but when shooting in manual exposure mode, you need to use the exposure display to see what you are getting. I don't see how you can function with this display being turned off.
In any case, my MKIIn viewfinder is miles ahead of the 5D when it comes to outdoor shooting in bright light. Never had problems seeing all the information. Seems like there are 5D viewfinder lemons out there and I must have one. I have no complaints at all with the image quality, just the damn information display in the viewfinder.
I normally don't use the meter in M mode, otherwise might as well as use Av or Tv. Perhaps it doesn't bother me as I grew up using a Miranda F. It had no meter. I shoot film with a FM3A and you can't see any of the F-stops or shutter speeds when light gets dim. Been that way for decades with the FM series.
However I have a friend with a 5D and he says he can't read the VF display in bright light. The odd thing is I can see it perfectly well in his camera, so I assume the high contrast ratio from focusing screen image to VF data display is too much for his eyes.
My only complaint about the 5D is it's missing DEP mode and ECF. Otherwise it would be perfect.
harrygilbert wrote:
To all of you who say there's no problem... do some searching, and you'll find that many have posted about this problem.
Monito wrote:
Whatever pet problem somebody might have, if they search they will find someone else who has the same problem. Then they will quote each other endlessly and it will soon appear as if a vast army of cheated owners has been stiffed by the company, all due to the internet amplification effect.
harrygilbert wrote:
You're ignoring the specific facts that I cited from personal experience. I also noted that others have reported the same. This is not "internet amplification" but evidence that my experience is not an isolated incident. When I tested 5Ds at camera stores and units owned by others, this had nothing to do with the internet, and it was my personal observation that 50% of the dozen or so units examined had this problem.
You have a strange experience. I have never heard of this problem until you started writing about it. I have had a 5D for two years, and I look at lots of photography forums, but despite my obvious interest in the 5D, I have not read one report such as yours.
I have no problem with my 5D viewfinder even in very bright light. Perhaps there is some malfunction? Perhaps the viewfinder isn't a good design for you? I love the viewfinder, but it isn't perfect and I still miss the analog match needle display of my F1n - the best viewfinder ever made (at least in my opinion).
Don't wear glasses and adjust the diopter. If you don't have enough range of correction built-in, then buy one of the corrective eye cups that Canon makes. The 5D has enough built-in range of adjustment to work for me with out an addition corrective lens. Short of that, consider contacts instead of glasses.
You have a strange experience. I have never heard of this problem until you started writing about it. I have had a 5D for two years, and I look at lots of photography forums, but despite my obvious interest in the 5D, I have not read one report such as yours.
Do a quick Goggle check and you'll find plenty of people with the exact same problems.
People who say it's my eye sight or that I am not using the camera properly are just wrong. I have a MKIIn and do not have this problem with it's viewfinder. The unreadable exposure information just occurs with the 5D.
chez wrote:
People who say it's my eye sight or that I am not using the camera properly are just wrong. I have a MKIIn and do not have this problem with it's viewfinder. The unreadable exposure information just occurs with the 5D.
I actually think it may occur in other bodies. Several years ago I mentored a man with a brand new 20D (I still had my 10D at the time) and he complained constantly about this. I tried his camera and found that to be true. However, as I recall, my own 20D, when I bought one soon after this, didn't exhibit the problem. My 5D does--but I just try not to let it make me frustrated when shooting. After 2.5+ years, I've gotten used to it, but the major time its really annoying is when shooting manual. However, unless there is a lot of ambient light it isn't a problem--and often my manual shots are in lower light.
I love the VF though--I shoot with a 45TS and find with the grid screen I can manually focus quite nicely for tilt/swing --only very occasionally do I add an angle finder C.
Maybe this thread should be retitled. Most people are just reading the title and assuming the issue is with the image in the viewfinder and not the information displayed below the image.
jerrykur wrote:
Maybe this thread should be retitled. Most people are just reading the title and assuming the issue is with the image in the viewfinder and not the information displayed below the image.
No, it's just a few who proclaim that because THEY don't have a problem with THEIR 5D, therefore it doesn't exist and anyone with a problem has bad eyesight or poor technique.
Very similar to some 1D3 owners who did not experience any AF problems; therefore anyone else who reported a problem was the victim of "internet amplification" or poor technique. Of course, many months later, we know there WAS/IS a big problem with SOME units.
I'm glad that many 5Ds don't have the problem. My 2nd body doesn't. My 1st body does.
Harry I don't think you even bothered to read Jerry's post you quoted. He didn't say there wasn't a problem with your 5D. He's simply saying the thread title is misleading as it implies the 5D VF image is crap. It's actually one of the best in production. You seem to be saying the data display below the focusing screen is too dim and/or small. Or is it all crap? And if it bothered you so much, why didn't you return the darn thing when it was new? I would have.
I had exactly the same problem with the 20D and 30D: I could not see the data display in the viewfinder AT ALL when photographing in daylight. This was a shock after many years with Canon film cameras, and then with the 10D, which had a beautiful data display. As soon as the 40D came out I checked to see if the data was visible. It was. I sold the 20D and 30D in favor of a pair of 40D's. Now I have a chance of making better exposure decisions again. On the 20D and 30D, it was impossible.
I have not purchased a 5D, though I would love a full-frame camera, because the viewfinder data display is bad, just as it is on the 20D and 30D. Canon made a terrible design choice on these three camera bodies. The display got better on the 40D (though still not as good as on the 10D). Let's hope the 5D replacement is another step back toward visible displays.
I wear glasses, which seems to contribute to the problem on the 20D/30D/5D. But it shouldn't be a problem in the first place. Canon has produced plenty of other camera bodies with legible data displays for those of us stuck wearing eyeglasses.
Gochugogi wrote:
Harry I don't think you even bothered to read Jerry's post you quoted. He didn't say there wasn't a problem with your 5D. He's simply saying the thread title is misleading as it implies the 5D VF image is crap. It's actually one of the best in production. You seem to be saying the data display below the focusing screen is too dim and/or small. Or is it all crap? And if it bothered you so much, why didn't you return the darn thing when it was new? I would have.
Yes, I read his post, and was commenting on the the other group of respondents who were saying there is no problem with the illuminated information in the VF (not the VF itself). YOU obviously haven't comprehended my posts. I did not "seem" to be saying the data display below the focusing screen is too dim. On my 5D (and those on other units) IT IS. Is it "all crap"? No, my experience and investigation indicates that about half of 5Ds I have PERSONALLY EXAMINED (about a dozen, including my two) have the problem with dim illumination of the information in the VF outdoors. I did not say it was too small, just dim outdoors, and I related no problems with any other feature of the camera. I related that, because I personally have one 5D with the problem, and one 5D without the problem, that it is a real problem (not imagined), and (at least in my case) is not a result of my glasses, and was not (for me) corrected by a 3rd party eyecup.
And if it bothered you so much, why didn't you return the darn thing when it was new? I would have
I DID return the camera for warranty repair, which was not performed as I explained in detail (but you failed to read). And I judged the defect minor (I do not claim the 5D is "crap" as your hyperbole suggests). In fact, I bought a second body (which does NOT have the problem). If I thought the 5D was "crap", why would I have bought a second body? Which I reported did not have a problem. Really, sir, you must improve your comprehension skills.,
My only gripe about the 5D viewfinder is that it's not a 100% VF. Other than that, I rarely look at the info display...I rely on the histogram. When setting up a shot in manual, I'll already have a good idea as to what aperture I want to use, so I estimate the shutter speed and take a shot, check the histogram, then make any necessary adjustments. Same thing if in Av mode...pick the aperture and let the camera choose the shutter speed, check the histogram. I shoot with both AF lenses as well as some good manual focus gear by Zeiss and others. The process is the same. All of this "auto this" and "auto that" has taken the thinking, and in my opinion, the fun, out of photography.
If this is your only gripe in life, then count yourself lucky.
chez wrote:
The more I shoot the 5D outdoors, especially in bright conditions, the more I get frustrated with the 5D viewfinder. It gets to a point that I have to struggle to see the composition through the viewfinder and times when I cannot see the exposure scale at all. Don't even get me started on the useless back LCD in bright conditions. Do other people have this problem?
I have the same trouble with mine in bright sunlight with regard to the VF info bar at the bottom. The image itself seems to be okay though.
Several threads at DPR over the years have appeared about as mixed as this one relative to those who have the problem and those who do not. And it is a little bit of bad form for some folks who do not have the problem to poo poo those who are having it. Maybe there are those who shoot in manual mode and are having problems with the tiny exposure indicator and those who are shooting one of the auto modes like Av or Tv or Program who do not rely very much on the info bar or they only shoot 30 minutes after sunrise or 15 minutes before sunset.
I personally shoot in manual mode and it has completely altered how I accomplish this. Essentially, I have to use the LCD on top of the cam. This workaround is fine when on tripod which means the cam on the tripod has to be low enough to see the LCD (there are other implications). To handhold and shoot, I have to switch to Av mode. I also began using the angle finder C on all of my tripod shooting which provides a full image and exposure bar at 1.25x and helps a bit in less bright sunlight. And yes, I can take my eyeglasses off and adjust the angle finder and diopter and see the image fine, but no luck on the exposure bar.
Before the angle finder C, I tried every known eyecup on the planet (and on eBay).
I tested a 40D a few months back for the Liveview and the VF on it was the SAME!!!!
Once I noticed this situation, I asked the retailer for a replacement and that cam was the same as the first 5D. I sent the cam to Irvine 3 times. Chris Canada of CPS personally looked over the cam on the 2nd trip and swore he had no problems seeing the VF bar. On the 3rd trip, I requested the managing supervisor over repair to call me with a diagnosis. I can not remember his name as we did not correspond via email, but he admitted that the VF information bar was somewhat dimmer than other Canon models (such as the 300D), but this condition could not be adjusted at the repair level. It was.....the dreaded "within Spec" response.
My upgrade path right now is the D700 as a complement 2nd cam for my ZF lenses and a future 14-24 and then at some point replace the 5D with a 5D mkII. You can be assured that the VF will be my first checkpoint on any of these new cams.
harrygilbert wrote:
YOU obviously haven't comprehended my posts.
I believe you are having the same comprehension problem. What's with the hostility?
I DID return the camera for warranty repair, which was not performed as I explained in detail (but you failed to read). And I judged the defect minor (I do not claim the 5D is "crap" as your hyperbole suggests). In fact, I bought a second body (which does NOT have the problem). If I thought the 5D was "crap", why would I have bought a second body? Which I reported did not have a problem. Really, sir, you must improve your comprehension skills.,
I'm sure he read that you returned it for warranty repair. He asked why you didn't return the body to the retailer since you noticed it right out of the box. And he didn't imply that you thought the 5D was crap. He asked if you thought the entire viewfinder, HUD and optics were crap, or just the HUD at the bottom.
Edited by bluebomberx on Jul 19, 2008 at 09:49 AM GMT
Mike Ganz wrote:
My only gripe about the 5D viewfinder is that it's not a 100% VF. Other than that, I rarely look at the info display...I rely on the histogram. When setting up a shot in manual, I'll already have a good idea as to what aperture I want to use, so I estimate the shutter speed and take a shot, check the histogram, then make any necessary adjustments. Same thing if in Av mode...pick the aperture and let the camera choose the shutter speed, check the histogram. I shoot with both AF lenses as well as some good manual focus gear by Zeiss and others. The process is the same. All of this "auto this" and "auto that" has taken the thinking, and in my opinion, the fun, out of photography.
If this is your only gripe in life, then count yourself lucky.
But the LCD on the back of the 5D is so bad you cannot check the histogram in bright light. Personally, I feel like I am always battling this camera outdoors and it really does take a lot of the pleasure out of photography. Will be looking at the new 5DMKII and if things don't improve, maybe the D700 will be in my future. I just have quite a lot invested in lenses, but that is just money and if I don't get the pleasure out of using Canon, I will have no problems moving to Nikon. It is just a hobby, and hobbies should be fun.
