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Archive 2008 · "Admirable" blur samples

Leon Noel
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p.11 #1 · "Admirable" blur samples

Alf Beharie wrote:
Hardly mighty...It has those typical, extremely distracting OOF highlights that only the Rokkor does so well, and that look so awfull.

You hate it so?
.
.
.
Have some moar!

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q69/Blknoel/_MG_7157-2.jpg

That is one of my fav with my Rokkor, go figure.

Or hand me a lens that could render those within-close-range highlights smooth and at the same time keep the object sharp, then we can see if it's a more attractive outcome. I know my Rokkor is sharp enough you can count dust particles on the glasses.

Sep 10, 2008 at 09:26 AM

cogitech
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p.11 #2 · "Admirable" blur samples

Anden wrote:
I agree. But the comparing photo is not really a challenging background. Small bright dots are a lot harder than the diffused light in Alf's photo that seem to come from one source.

A

Alf never shows his beloved lens in the worst-case-scenario. He hand-picks the shots that only show incredibly creamy-smooth bokeh, as if that is the bokeh the lens always produces. We all know that any lens can have distracting OOF highlights. Alf just doesn't show them to us, for some reason.

We also all know that any lens can have ultra-creamy bokeh if the subject distance relative to the background distance is ideal. I think Alf has demonstrated that he understands this aspect of photography, not that his lens is special in any way.

Alf, unless you buy and convert a Rokkor and then show us identical shots taken with the two lenses, then your opinion of which has better bokeh is hot air. I could easily have taken your wine bottle shot with the Rokkor, and I have no doubt in my mind that it would look just as good (or better to some people).

So, why don't all of us Rokkor shooters start posting only bokeh shots where the subject and background distances are ideal for ultra-smooth bokeh and, in the meantime, lets have some shots from Alf that really put his lens in the worst-case-scenario.

Which lens will have better bokeh then, Alf?

Sep 10, 2008 at 09:41 AM

cogitech
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p.11 #3 · "Admirable" blur samples

The mighty Rokkor. Wide open on 5D.

Alf. Notice the highlights (reflections off shot glass, spoon and can). Distracting?

http://www.cogitech.ca/Rokkor/img_1745.jpg

Sep 10, 2008 at 09:53 AM

cogitech
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p.11 #4 · "Admirable" blur samples

Oh, and how is your Canon for sharpness wide open?

(100% crop from above image)

http://www.cogitech.ca/Rokkor/img_1745_4.jpg

Sep 10, 2008 at 09:54 AM

cogitech
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p.11 #5 · "Admirable" blur samples

...and how about 3D effect?

My bottle looks like you could reach out a grab it, while yours looks... well, like a photo.

Here is one close in size to your bottle shot, just for easier comparison:

http://www.cogitech.ca/Rokkor/img_1745_1.jpg

Edited on Sep 10, 2008 at 09:57 AM

Sep 10, 2008 at 09:56 AM

Alf Beharie
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p.11 #6 · "Admirable" blur samples

cogitech wrote:
Alf never shows his beloved lens in the worst-case-scenario.

What about this then?...Could'nt get a worse senario than that!:

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4120/sdim3072chf2.jpg

He hand-picks the shots that only show incredibly creamy-smooth bokeh, as if that is the bokeh the lens always produces.

Well as thats the whole point of this thread of course I'm only going to post that kind of pic here!...Here are a few more:

Edited on Sep 10, 2008 at 06:14 PM

Sep 10, 2008 at 06:14 PM

cogitech
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p.11 #7 · "Admirable" blur samples

Alf Beharie wrote:
What about this then?...Could'nt get a worse senario than that!:

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4120/sdim3072chf2.jpg

Thanks for posting this, Alf. It is just like the bokeh that you hate so much from the Rokkor. Do you see now that the Rokkor doesn't have "bad" bokeh, per se, but that people have simply chosen to post some shots where the Rokkor gets funky (like the shot above)?

I rest my case.

Edited on Sep 10, 2008 at 07:26 PM

Sep 10, 2008 at 07:24 PM

Sirfishalot
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p.11 #8 · "Admirable" blur samples

Rokkor 58/1.2, closeup, f1.2 from Canon 40D

http://i.pbase.com/o2/87/63987/1/102937942.YpAYlAmE._C9A5963.jpg

and one from the Rokkor 85/1.7, closeup, f1.7 from 1D MkII

http://i.pbase.com/o2/87/63987/1/102936632.cm8GKZUV._C9A5814.jpg

JayT

Edited on Sep 10, 2008 at 08:30 PM

Sep 10, 2008 at 08:28 PM

Anden
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p.11 #9 · "Admirable" blur samples

I think we all can agree that almost any lens can have good bokeh under the right circumstances and also look really bad when shooting really busy and hard contrast small lights.
I will shoot my 85L that by many is considered the bokeh king along side with my rokkor and see how they compare. Could be interesting.

A

Edited on Sep 10, 2008 at 11:42 PM

Sep 10, 2008 at 11:41 PM

forestmage
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p.11 #10 · "Admirable" blur samples

A couple weeks past another forum member asked about the Voigtlander 40/2 with the little close up lens adaptor that it comes with. Here is one I shot rather in the moment with the 40/2 and close-up adaptor at f2:

http://bbrassfield.smugmug.com/photos/370254573_f3jWX-L.jpg

And one from the Voigtlander 58/1,4 at 1,4 just because I had the lens sitting next to my other cam:

http://bbrassfield.smugmug.com/photos/370272478_TTzAi-L.jpg

Edited on Sep 11, 2008 at 12:36 AM

Sep 11, 2008 at 12:30 AM

Alf Beharie
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p.11 #11 · "Admirable" blur samples

Alf Beharie wrote:
What about this then?...

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4120/sdim3072chf2.jpg

Could'nt get a worse senario than that!:

cogitech wrote:
Thanks for posting this, Alf. It is just like the bokeh that you hate so much from the Rokkor.

Alf Beharie wrote:
A bit yes, but at least it does'nt have those distracting OOF highlights like you get from the Rokkor...You could'nt sell a Rokkor shot like you could sell shots from the Canon because the Rokkors OOF highlight problems are simply unaceptable in professional quality shots.

cogitech wrote:
Do you see now that the Rokkor doesn't have "bad" bokeh, per se, but that people have simply chosen to post some shots where the Rokkor gets funky (like the shot above)? I rest my case.

Alf Beharie wrote:
Then they have chosen very poor examples to post on a thread looking for "Admirable blur samples", have'nt they!....I rest my case!

Edited on Sep 11, 2008 at 03:44 AM

Sep 11, 2008 at 03:40 AM

Spyro P.
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p.11 #12 · "Admirable" blur samples

Alf Beharie wrote:
Then they have chosen very poor examples to post on a thread looking for "Admirable blur samples have'nt they!....I rest my case!

Since you brought it up, regardless of how this thread started, it has turned out to be an extremely reach and rare resource on lenses that is very very hard to find useful reviews of, let alone image samples. And image samples that demostrate their most delicate quality for that matter. I could never imagine buying an alt lens in the future without checking this thread first, and personally I'm very glad to see both good and bad bokeh samples in it (if there is such a thing), so I know what to expect.

And a big thanks to Jonas for starting it and taking the time to make an index too

Cheers,
Spyro

Edited on Sep 11, 2008 at 03:52 AM

Sep 11, 2008 at 03:51 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.11 #13 · "Admirable" blur samples

Alf Beharie wrote:
What about this then?...

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4120/sdim3072chf2.jpg

Could'nt get a worse senario than that!:

cogitech wrote:
Thanks for posting this, Alf. It is just like the bokeh that you hate so much from the Rokkor.

Alf Beharie wrote:
A bit yes, but at least it does'nt have those distracting OOF highlights like you get from the Rokkor...You could'nt sell a Rokkor shot like you could sell shots from the Canon because the Rokkors OOF highlight problems are simply unaceptable in professional quality shots.

Hi Alf,

I can't see how you can say that this shot doesn't have distracting OOF highlights. To me the OOF highlights totally dominate this shot. Some may like this look others may not, but the shot literally has hundreds of OOF highlights. Some may find it acceptable, others may find it unacceptable, but that to me seems like a pretty subjective judgment.

Best wishes,

Steve

Sep 11, 2008 at 04:24 AM

Anden
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p.11 #14 · "Admirable" blur samples

Who looks at the rose here?

Sep 11, 2008 at 07:00 AM

Alf Beharie
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p.11 #15 · "Admirable" blur samples

But that is'nt an example of distracting OOF highlights, thats an example of worse case senario bokeh, with no real, distinct OOF highlights at all.
If you want to see what I mean by distracting OOF highlights just look at these Rokkor shots, posted in this thread earlier:

http://obj.fotosidan.se/obj/photo/11/1141f49f742bb5b54e4fd587cc3ef355.jpg

http://northlake.smugmug.com/photos/330402233_7M7tN-XL.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q69/Blknoel/_MG_7157-2.jpg

Sure you spend time cloning them out with PS but if you used a lens that does'nt suffer from this problem like my Canon FL55mm f1.2, then you would'nt have to bother.

Edited on Sep 11, 2008 at 07:08 AM

Sep 11, 2008 at 07:05 AM

Alf Beharie
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p.11 #16 · "Admirable" blur samples

Jonas B wrote:
This is a try to collect opinions on bokeh of all sorts (and also a try to save the Sigma 50 -thread from getting carried away).

This far we got at least these samples:

Leica APO Summicron-R 90/2 ASPH, close-ups, unprocessed, Jonas B, page 1 (and a processed at page 3)
Minolta Rokkor 58/1.2, close-up with background,,Leon Noel, page 1
Linhof Selected Voigtl�nder APO Lanthar 105/4,5, close-up,,Anden, page 1
Olympus Zuiko OM 55/1.2,close-up with background,,Spyro P., page 1
Vivitar Series 1 90 2.5 macro at 2.5, macro,, Anden, page 1
Minolta Rokkor 58/1.2, normale images,, Dim.ka_, page 1
Zeiss 85mm f/2.8 Sonnar, close-up,, Jman13, page 1
Pentax Super-Takumar...Show more →
Jonas, I did'nt see the Canon FL 55mm f1.2 on your list...See page 9 for samples.

Sep 11, 2008 at 07:11 AM

Anden
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p.11 #17 · "Admirable" blur samples

Alf Beharie wrote:
But that is'nt an example of distracting OOF highlights, thats an example of worse case senario bokeh, with no real, distinct OOF highlights at all.
If you want to see what I mean by distracting OOF highlights just look at these Rokkor shots, posted in this thread earlier:

http://obj.fotosidan.se/obj/photo/11/1141f49f742bb5b54e4fd587cc3ef355.jpg

http://northlake.smugmug.com/photos/330402233_7M7tN-XL.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q69/Blknoel/_MG_7157-2.jpg

Sure you spend time cloning them out with PS but if you used a lens that does'nt suffer from this problem like my Canon FL55mm f1.2, then you would'nt have to bother.

Do you have any examples with distinct OOF highlight shot with the FL?

A

Sep 11, 2008 at 09:07 AM

Anden
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p.11 #18 · "Admirable" blur samples

To me the shape and the smoothness of the OOF highlights in my photo and leons photo are similar to the ones in your rose photo with the difference that edges in the FL bokeh are harder. I can�t see why you are so eager to trashtalk the rokkor and why you rank the FL so much higher. I really don't. If you post a really challenging background that the FL handles great you might be able to convince me. In the meantime I won�t rank either lens a lot higher than the other when it comes to handling high contrast bright oof areas.

A

Sep 11, 2008 at 09:13 AM

cogitech
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p.11 #19 · "Admirable" blur samples

Anden wrote:
Who looks at the rose here?

Not me. The reds are awful and it is back-focused.

Sep 11, 2008 at 10:10 AM

cogitech
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p.11 #20 · "Admirable" blur samples

Anden wrote:
To me the shape and the smoothness of the OOF highlights in my photo and leons photo are similar to the ones in your rose photo with the difference that edges in the FL bokeh are harder. I can�t see why you are so eager to trashtalk the rokkor and why you rank the FL so much higher. I really don't. If you post a really challenging background that the FL handles great you might be able to convince me. In the meantime I won�t rank either lens a lot higher than the other when it comes to handling high...Show more →

OK, looks like I'm going to have to be the one to buy an FL 55/1.2, convert it, and do a direct comparison with the Rokkor, just to end this extremely annoying conversation.

Sep 11, 2008 at 10:14 AM

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