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Archive 2008 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

  
 
johnahill
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p.21 #1 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


Got mine back from calibration today, seems a bit hit and miss.
Seems to be OK at short distance, but so-so at longer distance.
Sometimes with the longer shots it seems to get an acceptable result, others can be miles off.

Will test more tomorrow with tripod/mlu and cable release.

Contrast and colours from shots in the garden were great, I really want to like this lens, but I need to decide in the next couple of days whether to keep it or exchange it for something else (too late to get a refund)



Aug 04, 2008 at 01:58 PM
badlydrawnboy
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p.21 #2 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


I certainly loved everything about the 50/1.4. In almost every respect it is exactly what I've been looking for. Except, of course, that it can't AF properly. An insurmountable problem for me, since I use AF almost exclusively.


Aug 04, 2008 at 02:38 PM
kendallkoning
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p.21 #3 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


Update-

I exchanged mine for the store's other copy today- the next serial number up, actually. (10077xx) The results so far have been night and day different. The new lens hasn't missed once. Here are two shots showing exactly how bad the old copy was:

Focus is on subject's knee. I did focus/recompose, but the error from that should not have been nearly so great.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/2732398647_69f04eca1c.jpg

Yes, the center focus point was over the building in the background. This was the worst example, though there was another that was close- the focus point was (near) infinity, but the plane of best focus was only about 20m away.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3083/2733230596_dbd107d8be.jpg

The new copy has been either spot on or acceptably close on every shot so far. Here are two representative full frame examples:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2733231674_7a0b4502e2.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3205/2733232040_435f9397e4.jpg

Finally, two 100% crops from the center focus point area on the old and new lens. Both have been sharpened equally. You won't have to guess which is which.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/2733231328_b678aa58a0.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3201/2732400803_e7a838a2b3.jpg

Conclusion? This is acceptable performance and I am happy to be keeping the lens.

(Edit: Fixed serial number. Thx Jonas!)


Edited by kendallkoning on Aug 04, 2008 at 05:40 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 04, 2008 at 05:40 PM



Aug 04, 2008 at 03:05 PM
Cableaddict
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p.21 #4 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


Very interesting.

So, what could account for this? It can't be the chip, they must certainly all be the same. We now know for sure it's not camera-to-camera variance.

I'm thinking there must be a problem with the AF motors, some kind of QC issue. If that's the case, there are two things to consider:

1: Any repair would be massively expensive, so Sigma is likely to avoid this issue no matter what.

2: A badly-machine AF motor could also work today, but go bad (out of whack) tomorrow. Kendal, it will be very helpful to see that same shot again, with the new lens, after a few months of hard use.
------------------------------------------------------------

I'd say there are two options right now:

1: Wait a year, so Siggy has time to find new components & all current stock is sold.

2: Buy a used one on Ebay for cheap (since there will likely be a flood of them soon) and use it as a MF lens.

Edited by Cableaddict on Aug 04, 2008 at 08:13 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 04, 2008 at 08:13 PM



Aug 04, 2008 at 03:45 PM
Jonas B
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p.21 #5 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


kendallkoning wrote:
Update-

I exchanged mine for the store's other copy today- the next serial number up, actually. (107xxxx) The results so far have been night and day different. The new lens hasn't missed once. Here are two shots showing exactly how bad the old copy was:
(...)


Thank you for the interesting update. Mine lens has serial 1001***. I read about a guy with a lens with serial 1003*** having the same problem (OK close, back focusing at longer distances).

Is your lens serial really 107**** or is it 1007***?

--
Jonas



Aug 04, 2008 at 05:37 PM
syntrix
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p.21 #6 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


1002*** here and no issues on crop bodies.


Aug 04, 2008 at 06:06 PM
Jonas B
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p.21 #7 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


syntrix wrote:
1002*** here and no issues on crop bodies.


Thank you. Have you done some sort of controlled test and found the lens OK?



Aug 04, 2008 at 07:54 PM
syntrix
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p.21 #8 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


Indeed. Done a few charts MLU/remote/tripod and a lot of real world shooting. I wonder if it's true it only has focus issues on FF and x1.3's.

My friend has an old XT, that was the most recent test last night, and the focus was great. I'm scared to pickup a FF body and have issues with this lens now.



Aug 04, 2008 at 08:05 PM
Jonas B
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p.21 #9 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


syntrix wrote:
Indeed. Done a few charts MLU/remote/tripod and a lot of real world shooting. I wonder if it's true it only has focus issues on FF and x1.3's.

My friend has an old XT, that was the most recent test last night, and the focus was great. I'm scared to pickup a FF body and have issues with this lens now.


Thanks again. Strange. I wish i could understand how some lenses (a total of two now I think) can focus accurately, while a lot other copies don't.

My have great difficulties whe the shooting distance exceeds 3m/9feet. I got a lot of blurry images when using the lens so i did take some time to really try it:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=28763729

regards,

--
Jonas



Aug 04, 2008 at 08:12 PM
Glassbottle
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p.21 #10 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


You know, this is starting to sound very much like a mechanical problem. What's special about a particular range of focusing distances versus any other range? Why, it's the point of travel in the lens's physical mechanism.


Aug 05, 2008 at 01:42 AM
Cableaddict
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p.21 #11 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


Glassbottle wrote:
You know, this is starting to sound very much like a mechanical problem. .


Yup. That's why I think it's probably the AF motor. The electronics are sending the proper signal, but the servo doesn't respond correctly.

Well, who really knows?
This is as much fun as guessing what the 5D II will be like! (and about as accurate.)



Aug 05, 2008 at 05:23 AM
simon_k
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p.21 #12 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


I visited my local dealer today.. no news from Sigma.
They said they weren't selling that lens until they hear something from Sigma - I really hope Sigma gets their a** up quickly. This lens is too good to be limited to distances under 10ft

Edited on Aug 05, 2008 at 08:35 AM



Aug 05, 2008 at 08:34 AM
Glassbottle
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p.21 #13 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


Ah, so there are some long-range good 'uns. What's the stinker-to-keeper ratio, do you reckon?


Aug 06, 2008 at 02:29 PM
johnahill
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p.21 #14 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


Well I went out again today to try it again, and the keeper ratio on long shots was about 20%.

Its so tempremental.

It's going back to the shop tomorrow for an exchange.
I'm hoping they'll have a later serial model in, otherwise i'll get myself a general purpose zoom for now, like the 24-105L and pay some extra cash.. (paid £330, so i'm not going to put up with a poor performing lens for that money).

Maybe when Sigma have sorted out the production I'll get another one.



Aug 07, 2008 at 07:59 AM
Glassbottle
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p.21 #15 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


Never mind QC in the formal sense, since that's clearly lacking, but it looks as if Sigma doesn't even bother to take a lens off the production line every couple of days and just take some photos with it.


Aug 07, 2008 at 03:38 PM
thrice
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p.21 #16 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


I have such a bad impression of Sigma after their technical support individual "Vuslat" argued about pointless jargon (incorrectly I might add) over e-mail instead of addressing the issue.

I sold my only other Sigma (12-24 EX DG HSM), which unlike the 50/1.4 was fantastic but I simply feel dirty with any of their gear in my bag.

For comparison, Canon Australia very politely replaced a lens I imported that had a flaw, and apologised profusely that their QC didn't catch it.
I ordered the wrong parts through the Tamron distributor, opened the packaging and all before I realised, they took them back happily for a refund and the rep personally brings my orders into the store.

Those are the only two issues I've ever had gear-wise besides this Sigma. And Sigma's denial of the existence of an issue and accusations that it is my inability and not the lens was just flabbergasting

No more Sigma for me, they make some great lenses, just don't offer friendly and humble support.



Aug 07, 2008 at 08:42 PM
trumpet_guy
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p.21 #17 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


I'm sorry to hear of the bad experiences people have had with Sigma.
I just got my Sigma 50/1.4 back from Joseph James, who had been
borrowing it to test it out. A lot of things came up, and he wasn't
able to test it much for himself, but his conclusions were:

1. He hated the color performance. [Can't see why he
picked on this. I like the colors quite well.]

2. AF was erratic. [I'll address this below.]

3. When it nailed the focus, the f/1.4 performance was fantastic.
[No argument here.]

I just shot off 50 or so pictures with this lens on my 5D using autofocus,
the vast majority wide open. The results for my lens-body combination:
Quite good.

Reading about all of the backfocus problems people had, I was keen
to test this. My copy seems to have very little of this problem, though
it can sometimes be seen at distances of maybe 50 feet or farther, wide
open. I will do a more thorough evaluation soon, but I'm still quite happy with
the AF performance of this lens, and it seems as good as almost any
Canon lens I've used. I won't say it is flawless, but then again I don't
think Canon's AF system is capable of flawless performance at f/1.4 so
I'm perhaps less likely than some to assume the lens is the root of the problem.

I will not discount anyone's experience here. Some have evidently gotten
poor AF performance and I won't claim it's user error. I am just thankful that
mine is performing very well; this lens is a real pleasure to use.

In fact, from the few shots I've taken using AF, I would not have thought
it has any AF problems if I had not read about it on the forums. Once again,
not to say forum users are all wrong, only to say that not every copy has major
AF problems.

Now, even if there were major AF problems with my copy, I'd likely hang onto it
for a while and use it in manual focus mode, since it is optically _fantastic_.

[Mine is an early model: serial number 10014xx, if anyone is curious.]

It would be in Sigma's interest to take user feedback seriously.
This lens is optically too good to allow reports of AF problems to
limit sales of this glass. I think I will soon be selling almost all of my other
50mm lenses. My copy really is that good.

As for the AF issue, I did have some out of focus shots among the 50 I shot.
I was most likely to see it when the subject was far away -- 40 or 50 feet or more.
When the subject was at true infinity focus distance [150 feet or more], the AF
usually got it right. And the problem with backfocusing that people were
seeing at 10 feet -- no trouble with mine. I tried a number of shots of a sign.
Shoot, back up, shoot, back up, from 5 feet to 15 feet. Each one nailed [f/2.8
on these, so admittedly not the absolute worst case test]. At f/1.4 I shot
three-in-a-row of a car license plate at 25 or 30 feet away. One was super sharp,
the other two were close, but not perfect, but still pretty good.

I will need to shoot more shots, though, as 50 shots is a small sample.
I am aware that some people have found conditions where
their lens consistently backfocuses. I have not seen that, but I'll need to take
repeated shots at around 40 feet to 60 feet range to see that for sure.

Anyway, I hope to get some tests done soon over a range of focus distances and
compare its AF performance against the Canon 50/1.4 on my 5D. For those of you
who have been wanting this Sigma glass, I think my lens and Chez Wimpy's and a few
others' give us hope that Sigma can make it work.

Tim




Edited on Aug 08, 2008 at 05:09 PM



Aug 08, 2008 at 04:44 PM
trumpet_guy
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p.21 #18 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


I took another 75 shots this evening. I can now see more variability
in AF performance. I'm trying to determine if there is a pattern
to how it misses focus. I will also take some test shots later with
my EF 50/1.4 to see if it does any better. Right now, if does seem
like the Sigma has more trouble with consistency at the longer
focusing distances, even for infinity focus. Hopefully I can do some
more controlled tests soon.



Aug 08, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Jonas B
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p.21 #19 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


trumpet_guy wrote:
(...) Hopefully I can do some more controlled tests soon.


OK. Thank you. I'm sure many follow the updates here.



Aug 09, 2008 at 12:51 AM
ovredal73
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p.21 #20 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh


Yes, I read this thread daily as I really want this lens, but cannot make myself buy it, considering all these reports. Hopefully one person will eventually say "mine works!" and there will be a flooding of good reports


Aug 09, 2008 at 03:15 AM
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