I normally talk the parents up. See who and what settings they are at and offer a little help if they want it. A lot of times it helps for sales. Especially in the hockey world where even if you have a high end camera and lens really the best way to get descent shots is strobing which they just can't do unless they know our set up.
The thing here is you should be asking is it alright for a parent to be selling prints.
You can not stop a parent from taking pictures of their kid, personally I think it should be the parent asking the pro if they have the right to shoot their kid.
I will tell you that I have had parents with ok lenses and bodies shooting at the same events (they generally can't get decent pics because the gyms are sooo dark) but I have shown them how they can maximize getting a shot with what they have and have spent a decent amount of time showing them how to setup their camera. It's turned out pretty dang well, they have always bought stuff from us just because we tried to help them.
On the other hand there are some parents with BIG $$$ and right after I saw this one parent with a point and shoot trying to get pics of his kid I walked over and talked with him a bit, he started asking what I was using (Mark III and 70-200 2.8 at the time) and does that help (it is a huge benefit in the conditions I shoot in) and the very next week he shows up with a Mark III and a 70-200 2.8 and a 24-70 2.8 (he thought it would be a good idea to have that too just in case). I complimented him on it and he began asking how to set it up etc etc.. I happily helped him on some down time and he was happier than could be and told me it was so much easier to take pics. He only wants pics of HIS kid so I don't shoot her and he is totally fine with it. He also tells all the other parents that we are nice, friendly, and take great photos and I will tell ya it goes a long way when you help someone.
Ryan, must be nice to have disposable income? Love it how the parents buy the big equipment and think they can shoot like a pro. But like you said I always try to help out a budding photographer, it can't hurt, as long as they aren't trying to sell the images after the fact.
When shooting LL baseball, I have a rule that prohibits parents (or anyone else) from selling photos of the players. I also prohibit parents from shooting from within the fence line. That rule is somewhat redundant since parents aren't allowed on the field anyway.
But no, I do not try to keep parents from taking pictures. If they want to bring their P&S or their MKIII and shoot from the stands behind the fence, more power to them.
On a side note, why do people always assume that parent will take crap shots even with good gear? I do understand some folks have too much money and buy the latest greatest and don't know how to use it properly but at the same time there are folks who can afford it all and still know how to use it quite well and sometimes even better than so called pros.
I'm an amateur photographer. I've had a couple paying gigs with a local publication (Nascar, NCAA basketball), but it is FAR from being my primary source of income.
I've only been shooting for a 1.5-2 years and take every chance I can to improve. The other day after work I went to the local little league field to try my hand at baseball. I shot from behind the fence, next to the stands behind first base (if that makes any sense?). My main concern was upsetting the contracted photographer by looking like I was there for profit. It turns out that there wasn't a photographer there, but for future reference would you pros have an qualms letting an amateur like myself shoot from the spectator area as long as I wasn't selling (or worse, giving away) my work?
I know that the only way to know for sure would be to talk to the photographer there beforehand if he shows up, but I as kind of curious as to what the consensus is on here.
Hey,
I've had a few situations like this.
Unless the parents are getting in your way or having a 4000$ L glass i wouldn't worry about it.
I did AUS Women's volleyball. And there were a few parents around with SLR but nothing to even threaten my shooting area. Simply one is that they had the Lens kit and also that when i started talking with them, i noticed that they didn't know the right modes or even the right lens to use when they did have other lenses kicking around there.
I usually help them out whne i'm on a break, show them the settings that i use and how to fix the settings and explain what each one does. Sadly either way when thye are shooting at F/5.6 and i'm at 2.8 or 1.8 theres no way they can compare, in an indoor setting. But again really helping them would be better as i have found. Simply because:
1) you never know who will buy from you (as another FMer said)
2) is that you never know Who they are. Shit i found a lady that was high on the board at my University. Which was great to make an ally like that.
Really if they aren't shooting with a great lens. Show them something, help them out if you have time. You only look better in the long run.
No, unless you like getting yelled at. You may have no right to do so.
If you have negotiated an exclusive contract for the event, ask the event organizer to enforce it.
No, unless you like getting yelled at. You may have no right to do so.
If you have negotiated an exclusive contract for the event, ask the event organizer to enforce it.
No, unless they like getting yelled at. They may have no right to do so.
If they have negotiated an exclusive contract for the event, they may ask the event organizer to enforce it.
If you see someone with a purposeful camera, give them a business card and introduce yourself. Be professional and friendly and talk it up with every parent possible to promote your business. Some PWCs will work against you, telling other parents on the team not to buy (offering free) if you don't make a connection.
OK, here's my non-pro input. I'm one of those dads who likes to take shots of his kids' hockey games. I *always* bring my gear (20D and 70-200 2.8) to the rink. I also have good access -- I sit in the penalty box and snap away. I take the whole team and I make the shots available to our teams on my pbase account, and send them (gratis, though it usually results in a free beer or two) shots of their kids if they want them. Its my hobby -- I enjoy taking the shots, processing them and sharing them.
Unless the boys are at a tournament, there is no paid pro. At tournaments, if there is a paid pro covering the game, I generally leave my camera in the bag. I just don't want to cause any issues, and I know the guy is trying to make a living.
When I see a parent at my events with something more than a P&S or entry-level dSLR and kit/consumer lens, I'll casually ask them who they're shooting for when I get near them. Most times they say just themselves, sometimes it's a local PJ stringer for a local paper, and they'll tell me. Most times if they have decent gear (300/2.8 or a 1-series or Nikon equiv) they are pros, but just shooting their kid's game. A couple times I've had a pro ask why, and I just tell them I have the contract for sales, so as long as they're not selling or giving away, I can't--and won't--stop them. So far, all have understood. Now, I can't really stop them from giving away to other parents on the same team, so I don't know if they do.
The nice thing about being the "Official" photographer is the access; at gymnastics meets, I can be anywhere I want (within reason), while the parents MUST stay in the stands. At the local soccer league, I'm allowed anywhere that's not on the field, while the parents are limited to certain areas (although it's not THAT enforced).
I did have someone come up to me at a soccer game asking if I knew where to learn to shoot. Seems he got back from an African safari, but before he went bought a MkIII (1D or 1Ds, don't know) and 600/4 IS, but had no clue how to use them. *sigh* Must be nice having that much disposable income.
Oh, and I can't remember how many people I helped with setting up their entry-level dSLR. Apparently they come with only AUTO mode... or at least, that's all that's ever used!
James Broome wrote:
When shooting LL baseball, I have a rule that prohibits parents (or anyone else) from selling photos of the players. I also prohibit parents from shooting from within the fence line. That rule is somewhat redundant since parents aren't allowed on the field anyway.
But no, I do not try to keep parents from taking pictures. If they want to bring their P&S or their MKIII and shoot from the stands behind the fence, more power to them.
And what gives you the right to set a "rule" prohibiting parents "from shooting within the fence line?" I assume you are shooting at a public facility where I, as a parent, have every right to shoot whereever I can, inside or outside the fence line. I am not sure how you can prevent anyone from selling whatever they want. If I want to sell another parent a 5x7 for my printing cost, what are you going to do to stop me?
Z_man wrote:
And what gives you the right to set a "rule" prohibiting parents "from shooting within the fence line?" I assume you are shooting at a public facility where I, as a parent, have every right to shoot whereever I can, inside or outside the fence line....what are you going to do to stop me?
Your "rules" are unenforceable.
Really?
So, are we to assume that at the fields where your kids play they let parents just roam the field freely to shoot wherever they want? Wowsa! I wanna come shoot on your fields!!
I dunno, Paul, I wouldn't say action sales are totally dead and I'm certainly not ready go toss in the towel (or stop caring). But, like many things, there's certainly been a dip in sales.
Z_man wrote:
And what gives you the right to set a "rule" prohibiting parents "from shooting within the fence line?" I assume you are shooting at a public facility where I, as a parent, have every right to shoot whereever I can, inside or outside the fence line. I am not sure how you can prevent anyone from selling whatever they want. If I want to sell another parent a 5x7 for my printing cost, what are you going to do to stop me?
Your "rules" are unenforceable.
I have two youth football photo contracts that state no one besides players, coaches, officials, board members and me, the official photographer, are allowed on the sidelines within the 3 yard safety line or inside the fences. Both of these leagues play on fields which are on public property but this is enforced by the board members.
That's not my rule but their insurance states this plus it is also a safety issue for players from fans who may get too close as well as a means of crowd control. It is not for the benefit of the photographer.
You have to be very careful when shooting along the sidelines at all levels of football, in the penalty boxes for hockey, courtside for basketball, within the fences for baseball and softball or around a horse show or youth rodeo arena. This is no place for amateurs and you could end up hurting a contestant or yourself if you're not paying attention.
Besides...any parent who purchases a DSLR wants to take their own pictures of their own child and can do so from the stands or from outside those safety barriers and if they want to sell them or give them away, that's up to them.
They may also purchase photos done by a professional but it's not that common since money's tight these days and folks are looking to save where they can.
I'm a DWAC (I had to look that up at first) and I'm going to add my two cents.
My son is active in a number of sports and I like to spend time taking pictures of him and his friends at their games. I don't sell them but may offer any good shots to friends. While at a soccer game I encountered a pro that had a contract with the other team to take shots of their players. After chatting with him for a while he noticed I was using Canon gear and offered to lend me one of his lenses for the second half of the game. (I took some amazing shots compared to what I was getting before.) After the game I returned his lens, we chatted about my experience with the big lens and I thanked him profusely. We parted ways with his card in my pocket.
After a few month football season rolled around and when the parents were discussing pictures I lobbied to have this pro do our team and action photos. He’s been doing our photos for the last few years and is also shooting a number of other team in the league.
I’m not saying that you should lend your gear to a complete stranger, but a few friendly pointers and a business card might go a long way.
My younger son played football as a lineman. No one ever took pictures of the linemen except me......
I must say that prohibiting pictures at a kids event just seems wrong to me. I'll stay in the stands or behind the fence----but I paid for my kid to be here and I can't take pictures so you can have a monopoly?
If you can't produce a better product with your better access....................
raul_T wrote:
I'm sure this has been covered several times over, I just can't find it. If you have been hired/contracted to photograph an event, do you ask the parent with the "professional" grade camera equipment to please not shoot? Does their postion relative to the event have a bearing on whether or not you ask them to stop. For example, I had a mother at a baseball tournament that I was shooting, standing inside the fence, first base side shooting with her D200, 70-200 VR. What if she had been in the bleachers?
On the other hand, just this past weekend, I was approached by the photographer doing the soccer tournament that my son was playing in. I was shooting with my D2X/300 combo. He asked if I was a pro or a dad. I answered "dad." He left me alone. The thing is I saw the photogs tent near the field my son was playing on as soon as we arrived. I approached their tent, asked if the were doing action shots and they said no (then they said they would on a request). They were there pushing their life-size posters. I then asked if they had any issues with me photographing my 11 year old son's game. They said they did not as long as I was not a pro.
What's y'alls thoughts on this? ...Show more →
so you are asking if you it's ok that you can shoot any game with whatever you want to but then when you are the pro at the event go tell anyone, even in the stands, to not shoot with pro equipment?
- very cool. I haven't convinced my 11 year old to take photos on anything bigger than a BlackBerry ;-)
